Hello...

'Ello there people. Took a vacation from Nexuiz and it's sad to see it breaking apart. On the other hand, this new branch might be good for the game. Love to see how this goes.

Why xonotic? (I read the FAQ's and it doesn't explain meaning if there is one)

Basically... it's easy to remember and wasn't taken yet. I guess. :)

Basically... it's easy to remember and wasn't taken yet. I guess.

ok, just wondering. Wish I accually could do something to help but can't accually do much. (School cuts into my time significantly...)

Xonotic was one of the many variations of Xenotic, and by the time the three criteria were applied, only Xonotic and Neuxiom [Portmanteau of New Axiom] were left.

I was on a flight during the hour that the name was decided, needless to say, we ended up with a certain rhyme of Zymotic.

Hello guys!

Name is Norbert and I tought after years of Nexuiz games I will just follow this new branch, tough I will still keep an eye on the old one too.
I think alienTRAP made the mistake with this move, and I am pretty sure, that Nexuiz will be deserted soon, or at least lose a huge ammount of old fans after this decision.
It's really sad to be honest, but I am optimistic, and hope for long hours of pure fun.
Btw, I have seen many many cheaters on Nexuiz recently, are there any plans on moving to Punkbuster or any other methods which may and can forbid the use of aimbots and wallhacks? Those two can screw up the whole mood on many servers.

Regards:
Norbert

Actually wallhacks JUST DO NOT WORK with Xonotic.. the server does not send info about items/players unless the other player can potentially see them. Thats not the case if there is a solid wall between em, thus the "wallhacking" client has no information about the other players position. So even if someone were to use a wallhack he would see NOTHING behind the hacked-transparent wall.
In fact this kind of 'active' anticheat mechanism is way more useful and less disturbing then stuff like punkbuster.

However doing something similar for aimbots/autoshooters would be impossible, so here we are open to ideas

However doing something similar for aimbots/autoshooters would be impossible, so here we are open to ideas

So I was right then about aimbotters all the time. No way one can shoot some without looking in a certain direction, spotting him/her before hitting the target. Do aimbots have something specifical signs when used other than fragging at a very high level?

All the time? Sorry if this sounds harsh but i really doubt that. Some of our members have been playing Xonotic (or at that time Nex) for 5 years+. Reading such a sentence is more like a sign of someone having no clue what experience, a steady hand, low mouse sensitivity and CHANCE can do. I know this sounds a bit strange, but if you have ever watched people like Kojn, Greenmarine, Morfar and a lot of others play its like watching someone live the game Well and back at my prime i was also quite repected as Flag defender I really honestly yet have to see some bad player with a aimbot win against good players. And in my experience most claims of hacks were false and out of bad mood about being owned by the other player or team.

That is not to say that its impossible to create a aimbot. Even some of the devs created a proof of concept in developing counter measures. One of them is the 'hit plot' device. It creates a map of spots on the enemy model being hit during a match. Aim bots tend to have an other distribution of hit points then a human. However this is something that can't be automated (yet) to detect aimbotters BUT can be used for tournaments to make sure they are clean! Which is quite important. Its just bad that it can only be used afterwards and is also a bit open to interpretation.

However of all the known hacks none were made public and just used to show that its possible. I'm not sure what i can do to convince you that with Xonotic you are propably among one of the safest games if it goes to hacking.

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Do aimbots have something specifical signs when used other than fragging at a very high level?

To answer that question too: It all depends and it will be quite hard. For example autoshooters are things that "press the mouse button" when the enemy/crosshair are at the right position. Usually one can notice that users of such a thing are way more precise with instant hit guns then projectile guns as its easier to code "press fire if crosshair on enemy" then it is to code prediction for projectiles. However if done really good in theory they will be impossible to detect (unless you want to call everyone with more then 50% hits a cheater)

Then there are aimbots, which basicly just aim at the enemy. If they are done bad they will just aim at the nearest player and 'stick' to him. That sticking is usually quite strange and easy to notice for a experienced watcher.
Actually this is something were the antiwall hack in Xonotic is bad :-) because in other games a aimbot would also be able to 'stick' thrugh walls which is very very obvious. In Xonotic this just does not work as there will be nothing behind the wall..
Because the sticking is obvious aimbots got changed to only stick shortly on a key press. Those can be also really hard to notice but often they stick to the wrong player which causes huge swings and instant lockon directly on the player (if you have more then one enemy)

And ofc there is the mentioned "hit plot" to try to get data on how the shooting was triggered. In theory any aimbot triggers on the edge of a model which humans trigger on the middle of a model. Thus if you see "too many" hits on the edge of a player it probable a aimbot of some kind was used. I'm not sure if you need 'server side demos' for this..

I had a chance on playing with well known experienced UT99 players back a few years ago, so I had a chance on learning some tricks, so this is why I am pretty sure, that when I smell aimboting, I am mostly right.

However of all the known hacks none were made public and just used to show that its possible.

This is where I say it's on the net already, I am pretty sure on that. Besides I think some generic aimbots could also work, I once was also surprised to see that lots of cheats are also available for games for which those haven't been created, but worked well. (One example: Hidden and Dangerous 2)
Anyway we will see, if counter measurements are required, and if yes what paths we shall follow. Aimbots can just screw up the good mood of fair playing...

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As final: One example to aimbotting to which I have seen a very similar online in Spectator mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbKTXOMW7R8
Anyway, I will stop that, because I have gone very offtopic already.

Ps: God my spelling is terrible today! Sorry for that.

To me, any cheater is just another challenge.

To me, any cheater is just another challenge.

I like this way of thinking
Good point there

Like this thinking too.

BTW we should rename norbert79 to xorbert79

Xot a bad idea, or we could start replacixg every N with X

Haha, good laff for me

Actually wallhacks JUST DO NOT WORK with Xonotic.. the server does not send info about items/players unless the other player can potentially see them. Thats not the case if there is a solid wall between em, thus the "wallhacking" client has no information about the other players position. So even if someone were to use a wallhack he would see NOTHING behind the hacked-transparent wall.
In fact this kind of 'active' anticheat mechanism is way more useful and less disturbing then stuff like punkbuster.

However doing something similar for aimbots/autoshooters would be impossible, so here we are open to ideas

About this. It sometimes happened to me that I can't see the map, but I can see where everyone is and where the pickups are, usually because of some client side error. Can this happen in xonotic? Or will I only see players in my vicinity?
And then, what about the democamera? As it is right now, I can choose a 1v1 demo and usually see where my opponent was. Will this still be possible in xonotic? If not, would there be a way to request a complete demo from the server?

I've also had the unable to see map problem and that was a huge dissapointment. Hasn't happened recently but it wasn't fun. If that still needs fixing, that should be made a focus. (one of many, I know)

No visible map means only that you do not have the map! Which in turn means that either the server did not setup autodownloading of extra maps or that downloading did not work or was aborted for some reason. What else should the game do? Just NOT let you join the server/match????????? KK maybe some easier to note warning message. But right now you can at least see what is happening and chat with the people.. and the server admin could be one of them.

Regarding the other question, it depends on the maps and server settings. Of course this visibility check costs CPU time and some server admins have disabled this feature. Also there are basicly two types of walls/obstacles with only one blocking visibility. Maybe i can find some time later to write up better info..

I have a very interesting question here, which just came to my mind:
What if a player replaces every texture within a game with transparent PNG files? Or what if the game will be rendered in wireframe only? None of these are real cheating, but it helps a lot for cheaters. Is this possible anyway? Does the engine itself renders every player even outside of the "field of view"?

I am just playing with possibilities here (going through some scenarios), I am just curious, nothing else.

As i said.. with default settings and well done maps the server only sends information about other players/items if they could potentially be visible to the client. So the client can use transparent textures, wireframe or what ever he wants, the engine will simply does NOT KNOW that there is something behind the wall and as it does not have a build in crystal ball it simply can't show/draw anything

I'll try to show that via some images later when i find some time.. or maybe someone else wants to have fun..

btw.... hi Xeno!

@norbert79:
I have played punkbuster games...punkbuster does nothing. The best defense is natural defense.