[SUGGESTION] "Xonotic-for-Kids" Mod

I don't normally think of Xonotic forums as a place to discuss parenting but a child of that kind of age should really have some supervision or restriction whilst browsing the Internet and parents should be keeping an eye on anything their kids install.

I like to think about these kind of things from the other side...

Let's say... a kid didn't see any kind of gore or violence for their whole life until it's 18 years old.
- What kind of reaction would some blood/violence give to that individual when it sees it? Panic? Some kind of other depression when realizing that the whole world is an evil place?
- What about a situation when ripping somebodys head off in a game doesn't make any effect? The corpse just vanishes... What about if that person tries the same in real life?

Because of ↑ I'm all for showing kids controlled amounts of gore and violence. They need to know how the world works in order to be able to defend themselves in their life as adults. Without this we'd end up with a whole generation of psycho- and sociopaths.

... just my 2 cents ;-).

Depends on the age the kid is in, imho. Two-year olds don't need to be showed violence or gore at all in order to be prepared for the world they're going to live in. I'd say you SHOULDN'T need to be exposed to gore and violence up to the age of 12 or so in any stable, non-repressive and peaceful society. If there is such a thing.

I play vidiya since i was 8, all my first games were those that people call violent, like Doom, Quake and Fallout, but i had no problem with violence because when a kid is playing a game it doesn't go like this: "hey, I'm playing a violent game and i LIKE it!" or "damn, look at all that blood, we need more blood, cause im bloodthirsty!". You just run, shoot, jump, avoid enemy fire and have fun. So where's violence in that? In RTS games player "murders" dozens of "little people", but what, does that feels extra violent? No. The gameplay is the main difference that separates classic mediums like movies or books from games, person is not simply observes things, he's playing, and pushing buttons to move or shoot can't be violent or turn someone into a psychopath.

Now, for the visual aspect. To teach a kid about honesty or laziness, do you really need to tell him a story about a little cute mushroom that helped other mushroom? I don't think so. The concept that kids require some special type of information is created by industry, because it allows creation of special market niche, "for kids", with tons of colorful plastic crap and silly stories about little talking flora and fauna. The moral in adult literature and kid literature is always same, everything else is fluff: sex for adults, talking animals for kids.

Any child that will play Xonotic will not be harmed in any way. Now Manhunt, that is some fucked up shit i'll tell ya, still can't forget killing people with shards of glass.

Sorry to respond to this after a few years, but this is relevant to something mentioned in another thread.

Obviously there's no one correct way of parenting. Using individual cases (or even majority stats) to defend either position is neglecting the fact that every kid is different. Some can play the game and appreciate its effects aesthetically; others may have a harder time distinguishing the emotion in the game world and in the real world (some kids don't really understand death and think there's a respawn -- true story). Just as some people get addicted to alcohol more easily than others, or some have better anger control than others, some kids will play Xonotic as it is without any negative side effects to their development, but not all kids.

I think the focus here shouldn't be whether Xonotic is bad for kids; rather, it should be whether it's worth the effort to attract younger players in general, by making it kid-(and-parent-)friendly.

The OP's proposal would probably change the game too much, so most people thought it will fail. This poll result actually discouraged me from coding a menu switch that replaces the screaming and moaning with a more neutral sound pack. Shall I have been discouraged?

Add more blood AND lower the ratings please.

Sorry to respond to this after a few years, but this is relevant to something mentioned in another thread.

Obviously there's no one correct way of parenting. Using individual cases (or even majority stats) to defend either position is neglecting the fact that every kid is different. Some can play the game and appreciate its effects aesthetically; others may have a harder time distinguishing the emotion in the game world and in the real world (some kids don't really understand death and think there's a respawn -- true story). Just as some people get addicted to alcohol more easily than others, or some have better anger control than others, some kids will play Xonotic as it is without any negative side effects to their development, but not all kids.

I think the focus here shouldn't be whether Xonotic is bad for kids; rather, it should be whether it's worth the effort to attract younger players in general, by making it kid-(and-parent-)friendly.

The OP's proposal would probably change the game too much, so most people thought it will fail. This poll result actually discouraged me from coding a menu switch that replaces the screaming and moaning with a more neutral sound pack. Shall I have been discouraged?

A few years back on my Vehicle server I had to players on it against me. It was a dad and younger son playing. The dad couldn't believe the game play with vehicles. They both played for quite a while but don't know if they ever stuck around.

I don't think you can ever advertise Xonotic as a game for kids, unless you transform it into something else entirely. Adding some options to disable gore and blood should be enough, but don't we have those already?

Those who frequent packer's CTS server will know Mauricio by now. Mauricio is a 8 (9?) year old kid from Argentina. He does not know how to strafe, nor does he care to learn. He only joins the server to play Dragonball Z in text form with other players. Kamehamehaaaaa!!!

There was some controversy after he had admitted his age, whether we should moderate our language to suit his age. Right now, I am firmly in the "this is not a game for kids" camp. Because.. it isn't.

So what about foul language used by other players on servers? Should that be bleeped out? And I am not talking about an occasional funk or agy)), but for example matuka telling someone he's going to rope their dud's koi puffy with a cactus. Just an example. Love you tuka <3

Edit: funk the moderators, I will do it myself.

So what about foul language used by other players on servers? Should that be bleeped out? And I am not talking about an occasional funk or agy)), but for example matuka telling someone he's going to Moderator notice: foul language not approved on this forum. Just an example. Love you tuka <3

I might advise you that this forum is moderated.

;o)

their dad's with a cactus. Just an example. Love you tuka <3

You can actually do that in Chaosesque Anthology!

The game is pretty tame with the gore off and sound muted. A World of Padman weapon/effects set would be cool but probably a ton of work

The core question here is if the game is about killing or about scoring by aiming at objects and timing your mouse button clicks (together with the rest of the mechanics).

Whether you play with lowest settings and gore effects off (effectively playing in a world of cubes) doesn't remove the fact that the core concept of this game is scoring by murdering the enemy players, and not even an AI but an actual entity controlled by a living human sitting behind their computer since this is a mutliplayer game.

I think we should put up some kind of DRM-system so that we can't get this game into the hands of people under at least 16, who knows what they might evolve into. =O

Agree. Stop playing it already, machine!

The core question here is if the game is about killing or about scoring by aiming at objects and timing your mouse button clicks (together with the rest of the mechanics).

Whether you play with lowest settings and gore effects off (effectively playing in a world of cubes) doesn't remove the fact that the core concept of this game is scoring by murdering the enemy players, and not even an AI but an actual entity controlled by a living human sitting behind their computer since this is a mutliplayer game.

I think we should put up some kind of DRM-system so that we can't get this game into the hands of people under at least 16, who knows what they might evolve into. =O

DRM!? Heavens to Murgatroyd. In 30 states it's legal for 12 year olds to possess a long gun. Why is the bar higher when it's virtual?

So what about foul language used by other players on servers? Should that be bleeped out? And I am not talking about an occasional funk or agy)), but for example matuka telling someone he's going to Moderator notice: foul language not approved on this forum. Just an example. Love you tuka <3

I might advise you that this forum is moderated.

;o)

Hehe, it took a while to realize that you actually left my own post alone. Thanks! ;p

It seems that when it comes to kids, people can only talk in cliches. I'm pretty sure that machine was being sarcastic though

When I was Mauricio's age I was playing the first racing simulations for the PC. The most awesomest thing to do was turn the car around, race into the pack and cause the craziest crashes. In retrospect, I think I probably killed over 9000 virtual racers. I'm glad nobody moderated for me, because it was "hella-cool", or whatever the kids say these days.

The core question here is if the game is about killing or about scoring by aiming at objects and timing your mouse button clicks (together with the rest of the mechanics).

I agree that's the question at the core level. However, before cognitive science is advanced enough, I don't the the two camps are ever going to agree with each other any time soon.

I'm trying to be practical here. The reality is that some parents and educators won't consider Xonotic appropriate. Are we interested in having more young player base?

I think we should put up some kind of DRM-system so that we can't get this game into the hands of people under at least 16, who knows what they might evolve into. =O

I know you are being sarcastic here, but would you say these young players should not be playing? If there's a way to make it easier for them to convince their parents/educators to allow them to play Xonotic, without ruining the game for mature players, shall we do it? Or shall we reject them because they hold a different philosophy?

A few years back on my Vehicle server I had to players on it against me. It was a dad and younger son playing. The dad couldn't believe the game play with vehicles. They both played for quite a while but don't know if they ever stuck around.

That's very cool. There were quite some parent-kid or sibling teams when I was playing World of Padman. I especially remember a father-daughter team from Czech Republic. It was fun to watch them talk to each other during the game play. However, each game has its target audience, so I'm not saying Xonotic should change. My point really is whether there's some easy thing we can do to be more inclusive.

Don't know about making Xonotic kids-compliant, but I for one would appreciate extending the "disable gore effects" option to the sound effects. I also would have nothing against making non-gore default, though I fear that people would expect gory effects from a FPS and would loose interest before even getting into the game mechanics. As strange and even ridiculous as it may seem to me, I very often get to hear that the violence part is important to many people. To me, it's disgusting instead, but I'm probably just a weirdo.

I personally side with you and don't understand the bloody desires. However, if that's the reality, I'll stop proposing the less popular setting as the default.

If we are among the few who prefer non-gory effects, then it's really not worth spending time coding it. I'll just share the custom sound files with you once I finish them.

Are we interested in having more young player base?

What I said, more gore more teens, simple as that.

Gonna say it again:

not violent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anhGh9sUbqI

VIOLENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBBs18HUZik

not violent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPt5O9Rs1Gw

VIOLENT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5dgcLu5MGA

Are we interested in having more young player base?

What I said, more gore more teens, simple as that.

Sorry, my sarcasm detector was broken when I read your last post

I just had a thought, a bit offtopic, but, does the GPL even *allow* restricting access to minors?

Well, depends on the country I guess, in Sweden it would be (formally but not practically) illegal for teens to use free software without their parents compliance.

And paid software??? If yes, it will be very unfair towards foss.

(The reason being they can't accept the license unless their over 18 or their parents accept it for them, in fact you are not even allowed to use your own money until you're 16 in Sweden. Even if this is the rules formally it's obviously not how it works in real life.)

(So, If a kid gets caught with 1 euro cent, he can get arrested?)

Xonotic would probably not be 18+, as it lacks elements like moderate gore (coming in someone's back and slicing their throat open) and sex scenes (lol @ xono+sex). It would probably be given a M rating, 17+.

When you think about it, Xonotic DOES have sex scenes when you get shot.
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