Reflection

Hi all,

In light of recent events, I've felt compelled to reflect on my time in this community and as a developer, and also on the future...

It was recently discovered that a fellow member of the Xonotic team has been speaking privately with multiple members of the community and development team in an effort to "gather dirt" on me, culminating in what appears to be a very disturbing document. I've provided a fork of the document's repository here for posterity: https://gitlab.com/Mario/xon-mario
I have no intention of countering any of the information provided there, as any who were involved will know the truth and I'd prefer to avoid further conflict.
This discovery combined with a lack of contributions led to a poll (https://xonotic.devfull.de/xonvote:27500/poll/405) among the team to have him removed so as to not have his actions sanctioned by Xonotic. They have since decided to support his actions by allowing him to stay.


This year especially for me has been centered around personal development and mental health, so it comes with a heavy heart that after 10 long years growing as a part of this community, I must say goodbye to Xonotic and everyone here, as this drama has taken too big a toll on me and shows no signs of stopping.

Rest assured, development will continue as it always does, Xonotic has plenty of talented developers supporting it.
Best wishes to you all and thank you to the good people here for everything.

Mario, thanks for all of your contributions. You have truly been a positive, driving force in the development of this game. It is in a much better position than when you found it, directly as a result of your efforts.

I'm sad to see you go, but of course I wish you the best! Mental health is extremely important. If there is anything I can do to help you now or in the future, feel free to reach out. You know where to find me.

Sad and understandable. But I also think if you dig up old dirt about each other there might be a different underlying problem.
I mean everyone makes mistakes. When I came back here after years I complained about the execution flaws of the xdwc in a bad way. But it's the past and I just try to be better.
There is no sense in digging up the dirt about someone. You see those mistakes where made over time and are years old.
I think at some point one has to let go of this bullshit. How many commits did you make in the meantime? I bet in general theres more stuff to make up for that.

But if it's your final descision(not hoping so): Good bye and thanks for everything! Also thanks for opening issues on gitlab for me as I forgot my account there and for your help in general when I aksed you about problems I had when making maps!

My best wishes to you, Mario, and thank you very much for all the help you have given me.

I hope I don't miss you, because that would mean you thought about it more and you haven't left

To avoid any further nickname confusion I step down and leave with immediate effect as well.

Take care fags and shitdevs!

Code:

Nov 30 20:44:15 <pac> ctftdm <resf::martin-t> why is there always some faggot with vortex everywhere?
Dez 13 21:01:11 <pac> ctftdm <resf::martin-t> cmon, dm is for fags
Dez 25 00:42:23 <pac> fvotable <resf::martin-t> shut up fag
Jan 04 18:50:41 <pac> wvotable <resf::martin-t> how did the fag join yellow
[01:33:41] <pac> fvotable <resf::martin-t> did some fag increase flood protection?
-
Mai 02 16:14:41 <martin-t_> vot i bet it was originally created because some shitdev broke weapons
Mai 02 17:04:15 <martin-t_> vot even tried to make it default in xon but a certain shitdev vetoed that for now
Mai 02 22:54:36 <martin-t_> fuck shitcode and the shitdevs who wrote this
Mai 03 22:08:30 <martin-t_> i am not a shitdev, i keep my docs up to date
Mai 04 23:17:51 <martin-t_> vot if i created a virus, it would kill shitdevs and managers, not old people
Mai 12 00:42:40 <eris> vot > resf::martin-t: some shitdev told me Mg is a good counter against vort
Jun 17 22:25:55 <martin-t_> malice xon is problem - just like js, qc atracts shitdevs
Jul 25 18:06:35 <martin-t> vot yes, otherwise you're a misleading manipulaive cunt like that shitdev
Aug 04 13:31:15 <martin-t> vot yay, shitdevs keep touching the code
Aug 04 13:36:36 <martin-t> vot basically a shitdev came to a finished game, made friends with the right people, pushed out other competent devs and now he pretends he owns the game while making it gradually worse
Aug 10 17:09:13 <eris> vot2 > resf::martin-t: "anyone"s opinions are based on lies a shitdev and his goat spread aobut me

ask not for whom the bell tolls for. it tolls for xon

A huge loss Thank you so much for your contributions Mario (minectf is my favorite map!). I hope this change is everything you need it to be <3

Since i seem to be directly responsible, I should probably respond.

There was indeed a vote to kick me from the team. I did over the years indeed say the things Mirio posted - I get angry easily and I don't shy away from strong words - I shouldn't have said them but I did. I agreed in our private team channel that I should be kicked from the team for what I said as long as they give me time to explain why i think mario is a manipulator and as long as he is judged equally harshly. I started putting together a collection of public IRC logs with my commentary as evidence. The original repo is https://gitlab.com/martin-t/xon-mario - i wanted to keep it private for the team and only to be used during the investigation but since mario made it public, i might as well link to the original version.

I said on team channel that i will try to update it next weekend if my time allows. If this collection of just a few public logs is a "very disturbing document", idk what the full thing would be

I think we should all take time to calm down. I don't have time for drama and have been inactive in Xon for half a year. I do, however need to point out that even in this thread, Mario is twisting the truth.

> culminating
> This discovery combined with a lack of contributions led to a poll

I started the repo *after* i was told there's a vote about kicking me to show that even though i am not blameless, Mario has behaved in unacceptable ways independently of me.

> They have since decided to support his actions by allowing him to stay.

This is a lie. They decided to let my stay temporarily so we could discuss mario's manipulative and abusive behavior. I would leave team xonotic as soon as that was concluded.

Mario is again trying to paint himself as a victim. As a resullt there's a new vote to kick me from the team immediately, probably because people believe showing allegiance to mario will get him back. He's putting artificial time pressure on everyone. He's probably also posting the repo publicly to show how "obsessed" I am when in fact it's just a few logs with some comments by me. I will however do what he wants and post more examples of his behavior.

Mario has no doubt done a lot for Xonotic but he's not the spotless saint others want him to be.

I'd just like to take the time to point out that the picking apart of messages and vendetta-like nature of such responses is exactly the kind of behaviour that leads to conflicts; a lot of what you have pointed out is simply phrasing, and discussions I was not a part of are of course outside of my knowledge (such as the new vote), so the need to claim lies at every turn is yet another source of conflict which would generally lead to arguments. We all have our own version of the truth, just as you have spun a truth of your own claiming any sort of "allegiance" from people here, or that anyone thinks of me as some kind of saint. Nobody is perfect, and I would never claim to be.
The disturbing nature of the document is more along the lines of cyberstalking, which is one of the driving factors behind my decision to leave this community. My decision is final, so I hope this concludes the unhealthy obsession.

On that note, I'd like to thank everyone else here for the positive words, it means a lot to me. I'm still passionate about the game so it is a shame that it had to come to this, but health must always come first.

I must be blind, I had not noticed that icon in Jeff's servers, and only their servers have it.

What a disappointment.

.

This is a lie. They decided to let my stay temporarily so we could discuss mario's manipulative and abusive behavior. I would leave team xonotic as soon as that was concluded.

as for me personally, you asked me "Evening, i responded on the team channel, would you please change your vote to no so we can discuss it without time pressure?". In my naivety I thought you were going to make some amends regarding all those shameful and profane public rants which Mirio cited before. I thought you were going to speak in your defense, but you spoke nothing in your defense, you only spoke to attack Mario, like if Mario did some sin of his own that would excuse you. I was too naive to believe you, and didn't notice that the poll was running out. I feel like a victim of a fraud tbh. I never told you I wanted to discuss mario's behavior, so your statement "They decided to let my stay temporarily so we could discuss..." is just blatant lie.

I responded here because you misinterpreted my actions, so I decided to make it clear that I never supported your crusade. I don't think we should continue discussing things like that in public, please don't make things worse.

Thanks Mario for everything you've done to improve this game over the many years of it's development. It's truly sad to see you go, but health should always come first indeed.
I wish you the best.

- The 12 year old

Thanks Mario, your contributions were very appreciated and you brought the project forward a great deal.

As for the "martin topic" - indeed, I stayed on abstain to give him a final chance to "defend" (by which I had assumed this would include an apology about both the extensive data gathering that others may have called stalking, and the repeated insulting of core developers and the team as a whole). However as he opted for "forward defense" (i.e. futher attacks), this my support is gone. Forward defense may be a good idea in chess, but isn't in interpersonal discussion.

So, +1 to morosophos' remarks.

Dear Mario, I feel a bit sad that you leave, you're a great developer and a good player. You had a great clan! I admire you so much, we really enjoyed the moments, we've collaborated with each other.  I understand how you feel and what happened, I'm sorry...  

I kept developing with my ideas to contribute to Xonotic like you saw, the nades, the weapon, Trouble in Terrorist Town (TTT) gametype for your modpack (possibly, if we can agree...), these things, ... I had ideas about making a motorcycle vehicle (it can take a long time this work), help you about your monster branch, new HUD to display, ...
I was thinking to talk to the developers about Mumble (a voice chat app) for the engine / game, because there are some possibilities to attach this third-party component.

And it is clear that doing these ideas take time, it is the same for all of us, we have outside things in our lives to do.
Having clever ideas doesn't mean it's bad, it helps us make things better.

I'd be grateful to know what I don't know about all the features of the development...

Please tell me something whatever, I would like to talk to you about many things... I've always found it interesting, I've always wanted to learn... 
If not, thank you anyway.........

I'm really sad to hear that martin's obsession made you make this painful decision, given how passionate you are about this game and this community.

Thank you for all your contributions and for all the support you've always given to me and to many people in this community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msMkeJTEGuU

Hey Mario, if you are still reading here, sorry to see you are leaving.
I haven't read any of the shit-slinging, but you have always been one of the politest and most helpful people I have met on the internet.  Can't say the same for the very minimal interaction I've had with a certain other.

But hey, you could get back to being a player in the AU community. Look at all the benefits!

•  No more shit ping!
  
•  Lots of witty conversation (OK well lots of toilet humour, but you can never have too many TWSSs)
  
•  Chance to dominate everyone (oh, yeah i guess you already have that)
  

Anyway, come play some time.  You will always be welcome..

Since i seem to be directly responsible, I should probably respond.

There was indeed a vote to kick me from the team. I did over the years indeed say the things Mirio posted - I get angry easily and I don't shy away from strong words - I shouldn't have said them but I did. I agreed in our private team channel that I should be kicked from the team for what I said as long as they give me time to explain why i think mario is a manipulator and as long as he is judged equally harshly. I started putting together a collection of public IRC logs with my commentary as evidence. The original repo is https://gitlab.com/martin-t/xon-mario - i wanted to keep it private for the team and only to be used during the investigation but since mario made it public, i might as well link to the original version.

I said on team channel that i will try to update it next weekend if my time allows. If this collection of just a few public logs is a "very disturbing document", idk what the full thing would be

I think we should all take time to calm down. I don't have time for drama and have been inactive in Xon for half a year. I do, however need to point out that even in this thread, Mario is twisting the truth.

> culminating
> This discovery combined with a lack of contributions led to a poll

I started the repo *after* i was told there's a vote about kicking me to show that even though i am not blameless, Mario has behaved in unacceptable ways independently of me.

> They have since decided to support his actions by allowing him to stay.

This is a lie. They decided to let my stay temporarily so we could discuss mario's manipulative and abusive behavior. I would leave team xonotic as soon as that was concluded.

Mario is again trying to paint himself as a victim. As a resullt there's a new vote to kick me from the team immediately, probably because people believe showing allegiance to mario will get him back. He's putting artificial time pressure on everyone. He's probably also posting the repo publicly to show how "obsessed" I am when in fact it's just a few logs with some comments by me. I will however do what he wants and post more examples of his behavior.

Mario has no doubt done a lot for Xonotic but he's not the spotless saint others want him to be.

But, why are you doing this?

Mario humbly endeavored to answer all the things that have happened. He strove to help everyone. He has made great contributions that have seemed interesting.
I've read all that evidence, NOTHING indicates that Mario has insulted/threatened/ignored good things/lengthens drama/done something wrong. 
He has been good to everyone, it is clear that if you try to do something that nobody wants, it's obvious that they will say NO. NO means NO.
Understand that we all make mistakes that we really don't want to happen, sometimes this happens and we don't expect it. But we try not to commit them or again. 


I understand what is happening, you have contributed some things in the community but on the other hand, you don't do anything right with a member of the Core Team who hasn't done any bad action. When we say that you aren't doing anything right, it means that perhaps you're attacking that person by spreading slander to everyone to attack him.


Could you erase all that evidence, please? You seem to be slandering and causing a big cyberbullying. You're lengthening the topic of the mischiefs you had caused, and as this happened, it has caused dramas that don't make any sense, this is causing damage that creates a negative environment in the community.
Please stop, you aren't fixing anything that is happening. We are missing the improvements of this community. 
Maybe you provoke them and that is why you feel accused... But they don't want to continue with this, you continue it and make it worse.


About the evidence of the DO NOT ENTER icon was made by the members who helped in the community with the fact that these servers have gained a bad reputation in the community and that it has increased a mass of negative energy that, from what you see, before Mario worked with them, but the responsibles of those privatized servers mistreated/harassed him during work and it was even hell having to bear that harassing burden that was hurting him. You already know that in public chats, there were these situations of cyberbullying of the person in charge of those servers, poor Mario was already overstressing, everyone saw what really was happening. I had the same situations as him before and I know it was happening, that was already demonstrated before and I didn't realize that it's still happening. 
And it is normal for those things to happen that the community doesn't want. In addition, the person in charge of those privatized servers kept making the same mistake, it is not strange that it gets worse...
It doesn't sound feasible to accuse that detail here, it is another nonsense with the attempt to abuse someone and lengthen the problems.


But as long as you keep saying that it isn't true and that is a lie, we will think that you have a lack of consciousness, you don't understand us/them and/or you lengthen the problems instead of stopping them/trying to solve. We doubt that you've apologized and asked for forgiveness, we don't see any of this.


We are getting sad here, we don't seem to feel good... 


Anyway, please don't blame us for these things. I've tried to make you understand what is happening. 

Think that what I did was to help you, not so that these slanders continue. Please don't share resentment, don't do bad things, don't download those negative feelings, we beg you. Understand it.

If you're concerned about your mischiefs/unimportant incorrect actions, try being less worthy of it, don't make things worse.
Don't think it's like defending that person and attacking the other. This isn't like this. We're here to collaborate/contribute with each other for the development and/or play in the project (a game as we would say!)  (Same says here)

Mario, I did not read all evidences and chat history. I did not understood exactly where is the source of your conflict with martin-t.
In fact, I don't care. I don't want to take position about this. Furthermore, I don't need to read your chat history.
If you say that you have been harassed, I just trust you.

I just want to say you that I fully understand your choice to leave the communauty.
You are right to protect you mental health.
No Mario, your are not "too fragile". You are not a "drama queen". You are not "retarded teenager", bitch, etc.
You are right to complain and to share what you feel. Your empathy is not a weakness.
People can be hurt more by words more than by bullets.

I did not know Mario so much but I read some messages of him. He seems to be the kind of nice guy who ever write positive things and who is always mesured.

LegendGuard said (to martin-t) : "We doubt that you've apologized and asked for forgiveness, we don't see any of this."
The problems I seen here is that people don't care of words they use.
They hurt people, insult and they don't understand. Then, they don't apologize. If we avoid to hurt people, we don't need to apologize.
Each person here should choose words carefully. Like, in real life !

I played on Jeff server and someone explained me how to create monsters. Monsters are funny. You made a great work.
I am happy to know who made contributions related to monsters. Congratulations and thank you for your work. I enjoyed a lot and thanks again.

I note again the problem of "privatized servers".
Mirio said : "But there are enough 'good' servers to play on." (https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.ph...510&page=4)
How to choose between a good server and a server administred by bad people ?

I think that Mario got fed up. I had the same feeling after being insulted.
People should be nice with each other.

About the evidence of the DO NOT ENTER icon was made by the members who helped in the community with the fact that these servers have gained a bad reputation in the community and that it has increased a mass of negative energy that, from what you see, before Mario worked with them, but the responsibles of those privatized servers mistreated/harassed him during work and it was even hell having to bear that harassing burden that was hurting him. You already know that in public chats, there were these situations of cyberbullying of the person in charge of those servers, poor Mario was already overstressing, everyone saw what really was happening. I had the same situations as him before and I know it was happening, that was already demonstrated before and I didn't realize that it's still happening. 
And it is normal for those things to happen that the community doesn't want. In addition, the person in charge of those privatized servers kept making the same mistake, it is not strange that it gets worse...
It doesn't sound feasible to accuse that detail here, it is another nonsense with the attempt to abuse someone and lengthen the problems.

I haven't seen so much verbiage together for a long time .

And regarding your accusation of "privatized servers": you know what? all the code was made by the OP.

So you can ask him for sources

"I haven't seen so much verbiage together for a long time ."
=> verbiage...
pfff...
Communications here and on the chat are really hard ! This is always attacks and defend.
We can not bannish people who abuse.
You are right Mario, we have only one remaining choice : leave !
We can not accept harassment, insults...

Thanks Mario and Mirio for making Xonotic awesome and bringing your energy to the community.

+1 Turkey_shoot, please come and help us (un)balance a CTF some times

You are right Mario, we have only one remaining choice : leave !

Trolls love it when they make people quit, get angry and banned, etc.  If you respond to trolling by giving up something you enjoy, the troll has won.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke

You are right bones_was_here.
However we does not decide to leave with the brain. We don't analyze the aim of the troll. When we are harassed or insulted, we are sad, disappointed, angry and hurt. As Mario said, we have to leave to protect our mental health. This is an emotional decision. Maybe it is not rationnal but we lost desire to play or to be implied in a communauty.
We're tired to fight trolls. Every day, new trolls attack.

Some people testified here https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=8510 and https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=8515. They explained that when we are attacked, we should react by adding more violence.
Then it leads to an escalation of violence. Then the victim is alone, isolate, and in a flag-bearing position.
If we don't answer to violence, provocation, insults, harassment, people think that we are weak and that we have to swallow insults.
After time, we are broken and we want to leave.
That why I said that I understood Mario.

I did not fully understand what happened with Mario but I think that he complained.
He asked a vote to bannish his harasser. And people does not take position.
Mario felt injustice. The harasser/troll felt that he can continue without be punished.
In this case, the communauty sent a wrong message.

All people can not accept insults by the same way. Some people are more sensitive than other. Some people have more empathy. The limit of what you can accept is different for each humain.

I already shared my point of view here.
You should bannish people (even for some hours or 1 day) at the first attack, at the first disrespectful behaviour, at the first inappropriate behaviour, at the first attack of human rights, liberty or dignity.
You should report each complain in a database and be strict. Punish a little is better than let situation become worst.
You should elect a sheriff to moderate. Calling a vote against an harasser is not the right way to do.
Like in a court, you need a judge who decide alone.

Furthermore, in all democraties, criminal votes are not public.
Some votes should be secret. If you juge an harassement or insult, you are not taking position to defend a friend. You should juge the fact and not express your opinion to promote a good image of yourself in a communauty.
That is why the current system is bad. You need a "professionnal" judge who is fair.
You need to be able to complain anonymously.
The justice is not a problem a public vote or democraty.

If you are banned 1 day for joking about goulag, nazi, sexism, attacking people with "verbiage" or loaded words, this is not funny but next time, you become more mesured, more polite and in long term, everybody will appreciate. This is a path to growth... This is the path to civilization.
Internet and xonotic should not be a wild jungle where trolls seat like a king.

I must say goodbye to Xonotic and everyone here, as this drama has taken too big a toll on me and shows no signs of stopping.

I'm not really a dev, all i did was offering that soundfix we talked about recently on gitlab. I always thought of you as a very invested guy and it sure is sad for the project to see such a person leave.
Although this is none of my business (and i don't know anything about this) i want to say that i think the comments in the Poll and the comments here speak on your behalf and if there is a chance that you might still overthink your decision you should take into account that most people seem to actually support you on this. I don't think it looks as grim as you might think in terms of "no signs of stopping".