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Poll: What should be done about the laser push force AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS ?
This poll is closed.
generally increase the push force against all other players reasonably
19.44%
7 19.44%
Only increase direct hit push force
50.00%
18 50.00%
Leave the laser as it is in Samual's balance
25.00%
9 25.00%
I've got another idea (see my post in this thread)
5.56%
2 5.56%
Total 36 vote(s) 100%
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[SUGGESTION] [Poll] Increase Laser Push Force on Opponents

#1
As someone who played a lot of public games on space maps with laser only I have learnt to experience great pleasure and fun from pushing people off maps. I have very fond memories of countless games where people just join in and start to use laser only for the fun of it and eventually an 8 player deathmatch turned into a frenzy laser fun pushing arena. Even today I regularly encounter people on Xonotic servers that just love to laser other people around.

Now I have learnt that the laser push force will be kept to a level where it is hardly possible to push anyone off a map, because "pro gamers don't like to be pushed off a map". I believe pushing people around is an important fun aspect of the game, especially for the ffa deathmatches. I have a hard time accepting that the "pro gamers" just don't like that someone can interfere with their control on their own movement, and that because of that this particularly funny aspect of the game will be removed/restricted.

So I'd like to ask you all, if you agree with current development decisions (which are not even following the personal preferences of all of the developers), or if you also like to laser other people around and see the need to do something about the current laser push force against other players. If you can come up with constructive ideas that would help both positions, please post it here as well.
Can't edit my post? o.O

What the heck, anyway I just wanted to point out that I don't intend the push force to be increased unreasonably, only slightly so you can actually push people a bit better :o)
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#2
Laser Sumo FTW.
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#3
I actually implemented it into my playing style to push people with the laser up in the air to be able to nex them better from within flight. Also this irritates many players since they loose control of their own movement. Feels a bit like juggling :oP

But of course I can adapt to new playing styles, if I must.
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#4
I've voted for only direct hit, because it seemed fun in Nexuiz in the beginnig, but later on, it was very annoying.
Also, introducing maybe "loading up" (this time manual loading up ala classic Unreal or Quake4 blaster) for laser like the Xon does might be a better idea in general, so the game won't turn into laser sumo spam. You'd still be able to push ppl around, but you'd have to make it more carefully.
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#5
Never got annoying to me... o.O

but anyway I can be fully satisfied with increased push force for direct hits. Just don't fiddle with the projectile speed too often, otherwise I'd have to relearn every time :o)

Thanks for voting!
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#6
(05-18-2011, 06:42 AM)divVerent Wrote: Laser Sumo FTW.

+1

More force on direct hit is the way to go I guess.
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#7
Pushing people around with the laser is ultimate fun! Tongue
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#8
I think increasing the force for a direct hit is the way to go. This, to me, is one of those things that really adds depth to the game; the more you learn to use the laser, the more effective you are with it. Just starting out I was amazed by people who were able to juggle people around in the air with direct laser hits (laser, laser, nex-death). As I gained experience over the past year I've gotten good enough with it to use it effectively.
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#9
Remember that, in order to juggle, you need to get them into the air first - I find that hard by direct laser hit, but again I can do with this solution I figure. Though I'd prefer to increase push force generally :o)



my, seems I am running a successful poll!
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#10
IMO in minstagib it should be able to push but not damage!
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#11
(05-18-2011, 11:56 AM)TH3FTB0T Wrote: IMO in minstagib it should be able to push but not damage!

Splendid idea! I also always get irritated that I cannot push people with the laser in instagib whenever I play that (which is rather seldom but anyway). How about opening a dedicated poll for that?
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#12
one of my maps: reflection, is extremely fun to laser people of it. Though I don't think we should make the laser super powerful, perhaps increasing the force just a bit would be acceptable.
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#13
"Direct hit only" would proly not do what you think it would. generally when you want to toss someone around you need to hit the ground just slightly in front/to the side to achieve the desired "toss".

What could work is a non linear force falloff curve (which would perhaps be a nice idea for all weapons), so that a hit real close gives you almost 100% push but one at half blast radius only gives perhaps 25%.

And i have to say i do miss this quite a bit too, quite a few "laser matches" are among my most fond memories of ze Nexuiz days. That said, it can be very game-play disruptive too, so the initiative to find a compromise is a good one.

Also.. we need a few laser sumo servers for us lazah nuts =)
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#14
I personally think it's good as is, both as a movement tool and a weapon (I'm actually better with it than the shotgun most of the time).
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#15
Well, my balance uses half edge damage from normal hit damage.. so basically, there is less force when you only hit from splash in mine. Direct hits already are more rewarded++ due to this ^_^
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#16
(05-18-2011, 05:05 PM)tZork Wrote: "Direct hit only" would proly not do what you think it would. generally when you want to toss someone around you need to hit the ground just slightly in front/to the side to achieve the desired "toss".
I meant "increasing the direct hit push force only", while leaving the splash push force as it is, i.e. rather low. I know, pushing people around basically requires more splash force (hence my vote on option 1), but I'd be able to accept needing to directly hit in order to do a proper push.

(05-18-2011, 05:05 PM)tZork Wrote: What could work is a non linear force falloff curve (which would perhaps be a nice idea for all weapons), so that a hit real close gives you almost 100% push but one at half blast radius only gives perhaps 25%.

That would be a perfect compromise imho, good idea and I'd vote for this too. Note that the non linear push force fall off should only apply to damage dealt to OTHER players than yourself in order not to break current laser movement.

(05-18-2011, 05:05 PM)tZork Wrote: And i have to say i do miss this quite a bit too, quite a few "laser matches" are among my most fond memories of ze Nexuiz days. That said, it can be very game-play disruptive too, so the initiative to find a compromise is a good one.

Also.. we need a few laser sumo servers for us lazah nuts =)

Yes, I miss that too... but I don't know if a laser sumo server would be so cool. I actually enjoyed the challenge to fight fully equipped players with laser only (oh how it was fun to play against jeff on evilspace in an unvoluntary 1on1 until he started to repeatedly spec/rejoining out of rage because he couldn't beat me even with nex and rl...). Usually I was doing quite well, especially on pushmod or revdm3 (or was it revdm1 don't remember).

I might add that the laser was indeed a very powerful weapon for a startup weapon, but I think the laser requires a lot of skill to use right as a weapon and this skill should be rewarded. With laser only, I was never able to beat an equally skilled player that played with all weapons. Also, startup weapons don't necessarily need to be weakest in all aspects, I think it's ok to have the laser as a very useful tool. I'd be even ok with reducing it's damage dealt to other players so it remains rather a tool than a weapon.
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#17
I'm not sure to understand what's the difference between the two first choices of the survey...
We are talking about the push force on other opponents, right? It's in the title of the survey. In other words, we are not talking about the self push force.
Now, is there any other way to push off an opponent than with a direct hit??
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#18
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#19
Kuniu: THANK YOU. This explains it better than I could do in words.

Of course you can push another player with the splash damage of the laser impact, too, see lower part of the image.
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#20
Kuniu does know how to speak to me Smile

Actually, I wasn't aware that you could push off someone only with the laser splash Tongue
I always aimed at the feet without conceptually thinking to what i was actually doing... Blush

On the topic, I tend to vote for the direct hit only. Sumo laser is indeed fun when played at 3 a.m with good mates, but can also be hugely polluting during more competitive games (just like minelayer btw. Oups, i promised myself not to write this Tongue)

As opposed, direct hits are both useful to combo or to defend.
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#21
of course, maybe we could make a laser sumo mutator, that increases the push force a lot, turning the game into a laser arena.
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#22
Good day gentlemen,

googling for 'laser sumo, xonotic' brought me here. And since people started to talk about it already I didn't want to open an own thread for that.
In short: we (DBC) are planning to open a laser sumo server just as in good old days. The thing is, none of us has got the maps from back then. Does anybody here still have them or at least know a place where to find them? We've tried "maps.nexuizninjaz.com" but without luck ( at least we could find some nexball maps ^^ )

We'd be happy if we could revive laser sumo. It seems a good way to connect minsta with non-minsta players with casual gaming .. at least that's what I believe in.
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#23
(05-24-2013, 05:06 PM)jizzman Wrote: Good day gentlemen,

googling for 'laser sumo, xonotic' brought me here. And since people started to talk about it already I didn't want to open an own thread for that.
In short: we (DBC) are planning to open a laser sumo server just as in good old days. The thing is, none of us has got the maps from back then. Does anybody here still have them or at least know a place where to find them? We've tried "maps.nexuizninjaz.com" but without luck ( at least we could find some nexball maps ^^ )

We'd be happy if we could revive laser sumo. It seems a good way to connect minsta with non-minsta players with casual gaming .. at least that's what I believe in.

Hello jizzman!

The maps are still hosted on the peacebrothers webpage.
http://peacebrothers.net/curl/index.php?dir=duel

More, non laser-sumo (still insane) maps: http://peacebrothers.net/curl/index.php?dir=

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#24
Thanks a lot FruitieX,

even nexball maps! Big Grin We are also running a votable server that provides dm and tdm with xpm-balance, minsta dm, tdm and ctf and of course, most important: nexball. It's a gametype that is too rarely seen on xonotic and also absolutely valuable for casual gaming.

Two more things though:

- the arena type seems to force the spectators to play. Is there a way to let spectators choose whether they want to play or not? That round based 1on1 matches make sense playing laser sumo but though some people would like to watch only

- is there a cvar that prevents players spawning in the same info_player_deathmatch? It rarely happens but it does happen .. can be annoying in laser sumo

Thanks again ^^
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