Trouble on Beginner's Server

So, lately I'm trying to get a few new people into Xonotic. I'm administrating a 7500+ people online community, so it's rather easy for me to find some guys, who might be interested. Xonotic is a really cool game, it's free and it certainly could use some more players, as you all might be aware. So, I thought I give it a try and lure some new players in.

Well, easier said than done. It already starts with myself. I've been playing this game since last September and I also got a long time UT (and some Quake 3) background, so needless to say that I'm not too bad at it. My friends here never really played a game like this, if they have played any shooter before it's something like Battlefield, Team Fortress or similar. Needless to say they are pretty bad and need to get introduced into the game properly without being scared off.

Teaching them can be already pretty hard, because even if I'm trying to play like a brainless Zombie who only uses shot- and machine gun, I'm still doing pretty good on instinct. You can't turn off things like aim and map knowledge. But they accept this, some also practice with the singleplayer bot mode and it's going pretty well so far...

However... we don't have a server and hosting a private match myself ended up pretty laggy, so we're forced to play on public servers. And this is were the real problem is. As soon as some well-known player or some other neon green skin joins, they just get raped and easily frustrated.

So, I figured we should just join the DCC beginner server. Because it's for beginners, right? I could just back off and let them play, give some tipps, etc... but nooooo, it only took one minute for some pro players to join the match and play like it's professional league time. I'm talking top 20 players here. Going full hardcore. I tried to talk to some of them about the issue, but as soon as one realized, that he was doing wrong, the next definitely-not-a-beginner would join to start the madness all over again...

Sigh... Okay, to be fair, I also had my share of fun with some German Let's Play kiddies in this game. I understand it can be fun to "pwn little n00bs". But I wouldn't consider joining the beginners' server to do so. It's certainly not helping and will only scare new players off.

The way I see it, if you don't have a background in UT, Quake or similar fast paced arena shooters, there's no way you're getting into Xonotic. The community won't let you, because the top tier players will rape you already on the beginners' server. You get frustrated and quit. So, is this something the Xonotic community wants? Only letting experienced players in? Because if that's the case, I simply won't bother with advertising the game anymore and only recommend it to people with arena shooter experience.

Try the private DCC Pickup server:

Code:

connect delight.vapor.com:26500

and

Code:

vcall dm

I guess there is warmup mode so you have to press F4.

I know that problem. Most of the experienced players won't join the Beginners' server, but there's always some idiots that want to push their ego by pwning a bunch of clueless newbies. If you want to set up private training matches, use the pickup server as recommended by Mirio. You can just enter 'connect delight.vapor.com:26500' into console.

Also I've done a lot of private tutorials, if your fellows are interested, I could show them the basics of Xonotic gameplay in a group tutorial. You often find me on IRC #xonotic or #xonotic.pickup at 21:00 CET. If you're interested, highlight me there. Otherwise check out the links in my signature for some introductions into Xonotic.

Thanks, guys! I'll try the private DCC pickup server.

Thanks, guys! I'll try the private DCC pickup server.

Btw, if you have problems with people joining it or server issues you can write my nick in chat. I will get a message and might be able to help you.

Just played a match there, it was splendid. ^^ So, thanks again!

But while this helps with my people, there's still the general issue. There are regularly new players joining the game, especially here in Germany, where the game gets some attention from the Let's Play community (Sgt. Rumpel and gronkh mostly). But usually they get scared off pretty quickly, because the different skill levels are far apart from each other. They simply don't stand a chance against experienced players and get frustrated easily, if you welcome them with a Nex'n'Nades combo. Then they return to Call of Duty or similar, where it's easy to make some kills even as a beginner.

Of course Xonotic aims at the arena shooter eSports crowd, so it's simply not a FPS for the masses. But in the last months I've seen people, who have never played a game like this before becoming pretty good at it. And that's because they got introduced to it properly. Halogene's newbie corner is pretty awesome, but most of the new players don't bother with checking the forums at first. Naturally you want to play the game before you read the manual. xD So, if you run into new players, try to help them. Don't play all hardcore. I usually switch to shotgun and laser and avoid powerups and armor to leave them a chance. And maybe give them some advice via chat. But most certainly don't make a pwnage on the beginner server... that's just lame.

Well another issue with newer players is the location of servers... there are virtually no weapons servers in the us.. so players are forced to play on esk minsta server.

Every other server makes players get 150+ ping, and not every player is persistent like me and enjoys the game with a super high ping... I really think that getting more us servers up would help too.

Not to mention the lack of players in the game in general. Sometimes I've seen some players quit (including some friends of mine irl) because of lack of players on their favorite servers... They just want to play; not all willing to sit there 15minutes and wait for someone to connect. As someone already said, they come from shooters like battlefield, cod, etc. where there are lots of players and very full servers most of the time.

So, I figured we should just join the DCC beginner server. Because it's for beginners, right?

Yes it is. And I will definitely ban any pros who join the server to pwn some newbies.

When you play on the beginner server and some pro players show up, please report it on IRC to get them banned. You can find us in #xonotic on quakenet, or even better #dccdelight on ARCnet (delight.vapor.com), where you can recognize the admins by the op status.

You can also highlight us from ingame by typing our nicks to get fast help.

Yes it is. And I will definitely ban any pros who join the server to pwn some newbies.

How about a server admin selectable feature to auto kick players who are winning too much? Or maybe just print a message to the screen suggesting they might want to find some competition closer to their level?

When you play on the beginner server and some pro players show up, please report it on IRC to get them banned. You can find us in #xonotic on quakenet, or even better #dccdelight on ARCnet (delight.vapor.com), where you can recognize the admins by the op status.

You can also highlight us from ingame by typing our nicks to get fast help.

Well, I shouldn't have been on the server myself, so snitching on the other pro players there wasn't really an option at the point. And luckily I could talk to them, problem was that other pros kept joining for some reason...

And how are you supposed to know this as a new player? Let's say some new players join the server to try out the game. Suddenly a living aim bot neon skin joins and rapes them to death. What could they do about it? How are they supposed to know how to report them? If it's in the server messages, please be aware that the game's HUD can be pretty overwhelming at default and that new players tend to ignore server messages.

But when you join the DCC beginner server, this huge window window pops up with the message "this is a beginner server only" (or something like that). Maybe you should add there how new players can report pro players interrupting their game.

Crux of the problem: some people are jerks. When someone comes up with a solution for that, cows will fly on pink party popovers.

When someone joins on a US duel server, I go laser only, offer as much advise via chat as I can, and they still usually quit after getting killed twice. If you're spreading the word to players who haven't played arena FPSs before, I would recommend showing them something like Killing X Zone rather than the trailer so they know a bit more about what they're going up against... I have a feeling a lot of people aren't expecting what they get.

Also, props for referring people here ^^

Well, I shouldn't have been on the server myself, so snitching on the other pro players there wasn't really an option at the point.

You were there to train the newbies and surely noone would object that, especially not the newbies. And usually this is even obvious from the chat that is mirrored into an IRC channel. No admin with at least some sanity left in his mind will classify that as bad behaviour.

As a certified professional gamer, I feel offended by the idea that I will be singled out and prosecuted because of my skill level, forced to play alone in empty "pro" servers. No longer will I be allowed to play with my noob brethren. What kinda propositions are these?!

As a certified professional gamer, I feel offended by the idea that I will be singled out and prosecuted because of my skill level, forced to play alone in empty "pro" servers. No longer will I be allowed to play with my noob brethren. What kinda propositions are these?!

Chillax and stop taking it too seriously. It's only a game.

It's about trying to make things fair to grow the player base. Once the player base grows then there will be more people to play of your level. In the meantime don't you think it is not much competition for you playing new players?

As a certified professional gamer, I feel offended by the idea that I will be singled out and prosecuted because of my skill level, forced to play alone in empty "pro" servers. No longer will I be allowed to play with my noob brethren. What kinda propositions are these?!

Chillax and stop taking it too seriously. It's only a game.

It's about trying to make things fair to grow the player base. Once the player base grows then there will be more people to play of your level. In the meantime don't you think it is not much competition for you playing new players?

I think it was a joke.

I don't think there should be discrimination based on skill level only. If so, what's the cutoff between pro and newb? Welcome to a very grey area.

When I join DCC Beginners (guilty) I expect to find newish people and even with 350 ping I try to play at a level where I'm not wiping the floor, but trying to give them obvious hints as to what they should be doing. I have this sneaking theory that it's most enjoyable for all parties when the participants are of very similar levels. So, when my opponent is lower I like to even things up a bit in various ways. Using laser only and still winning though, I'm sure they find patronising. It's probably obvious when somebody is "playing dumb" for you too.

But regardless of what you do to accomodate, I have to echo the comment that most newbs will quit never to return after about 2 kills regardless of overall score or behaviour. This is the majority of people who simply decide they don't like Xonotic for some crazy reason, who would've quit shortly regardless of their opponent. Better to have a temporary opponent?

Yes, people have crazy reasons to dislike somthing. I have seen a lot of people say in my face: «Eww, Linux sucs» or «Wow, that sounds amasing! Is it expensive?... It's free? It sucs then...»

I think that pro players should... at least leave the newbies, as if they stay and learn, in some time they will turn into more or less competitive players, and provide concurense.

I have to echo the comment that most newbs will quit never to return after about 2 kills regardless of overall score or behaviour. This is the majority of people who simply decide they don't like Xonotic for some crazy reason, who would've quit shortly regardless of their opponent

You can't really say that. See it from the other persons perspective and they will say that you have crazy reasons to like it, it's a matter of opinion. They don't have to play Xonotic or like it but everyone should be welcome to do so.

And can we please stop talking about 'newbs', 'noobs' and 'newbies' as if they are second class citizens? It really is unpleasant not just the words but the overall tone and sweeping assumptions made. If someone thinking of playing Xonotic was to come across this thread and see some of the comments, whats the chance they'll be turned off the game just seeing the attitudes shown?

I know it's the same in many other online games as well even if not actually stated it can be observed commonly but that does not mean that it is appropriate.

but there's always some idiots that want to push their ego by pwning a bunch of clueless newbies.

But shouldn't they loose ego from it?

Edh, I agree on that, but

Crux of the problem: some people are jerks. When someone comes up with a solution for that, cows will fly on pink party popovers.

---

And can we please stop talking about 'newbs', 'noobs' and 'newbies' as if they are second class citizens? It really is unpleasant not just the words but the overall tone and sweeping assumptions made. If someone thinking of playing Xonotic was to come across this thread and see some of the comments, whats the chance they'll be turned off the game just seeing the attitudes shown?

By the way, how are they supposed to called then?

By the way, how are they supposed to called then?

New players, beginners, novices? But this is NOT just about the name given to them, here is an example:

"most queers bum each other regardless of overall attractiveness or behaviour. This is the majority of people who simply decide that they aren't attracted to women for some crazy reason"

The name there is perhaps not so acceptable but the sterotype applied is discriminatory even if there is this implied fact that 'everyone knows' and that they are 'crazy' for not thinking the same as the person expressing their view .

That might seem an extreme example but think about it when people are saying:

"most newbs will quit never to return after about 2 kills regardless of overall score or behaviour. This is the majority of people who simply decide they don't like Xonotic for some crazy reason"

That is also derogatory. Not for the names alone but for the implications. I'm sure we could all think of a similar race related one just by swapping words but I'll leave that one out.

How on earth is someone reading this thread having come across this game for the first time going to react to such sweeping statements? They'll see the atitude of some experieced players towards 'most noobs' and the assumptions that are made and stereotypes applied and begin to think that perhaps they shouldn't download the game. The community is a bunch of elitist knobs. They will apply that label to the community elsewhere.

So play nice and welcome people by not applying labels and stereotypes. Everyone is new to everything at some point and it in no way makes them second class citizens under the 'leetocracy' (I just made that up) that unfortunately builds up on the Internet.

Edit: for a start can we change the name of this thread please? It might be a joke but for someone just scanning the forums and not reading threads this looks terrible. Big push factor for someone to cancel their Xonotic download as they scan the forums in the meantime. Just make it something constructive like 'Players with higher skill level playing on beginner servers'.

lol

If people just would stop posting in this thread, it would get all the attention it deserves.


Oh darn why did I - I don't even

And can we please stop talking about 'newbs', 'noobs' and 'newbies' as if they are second class citizens? It really is unpleasant not just the words but the overall tone and sweeping assumptions made. If someone thinking of playing Xonotic was to come across this thread and see some of the comments, whats the chance they'll be turned off the game just seeing the attitudes shown?

I know it's the same in many other online games as well even if not actually stated it can be observed commonly but that does not mean that it is appropriate.

Can we please stop talking about 'pros', 'professionals', and 'champions' as if they're first rate players? It really is unpleasant not just the words but the overall tone and sweeping assumptions made. If someone thinking of dueling in Xonotic competitively was to come across this thread and see some of the comments, whats the chance they'll be turned off the game just seeing the attitudes shown?

I know it's the same in many other esports titles as well even if not actually stated it can be observed commonly but that does not mean that it's appropriate.

Eh Bolwind.... there might be a point that you're making somewhere but I'm failing to see it. I think it's worth in this case to also state it in a serious manner at least once :p

This thread is not about all experienced players at all, but about a certain selection that apparently likes to wreak havoc on a server for beginners only. That's absolutely worth discussing. First of all, because it's just not a very nice thing to do. But also because we have recently come to some sort of common conclusion that Xonotic in its current state and form is not very capable of retaining new players. If this is even a small part of that problem, then it deserves to be addressed.

And in general: the intention of this thread is excellent. Beginners server should be for beginners only. One of the server admins has already told us that they will enfoce this whenever possible. The rest is just: if the shoe fits, wear it. There's really no reason to become upset when you are a good player who does not display this behaviour. In fact, it might be worth distancing yourself from it.

Well Bolwind, calling everyone who uses a green skin a professional is ridiculous but it shows the gap between those who are completely new to arena/hardcore fps and those who have experience. Xonotic tries to please both parties but I can't see that succeeding (unless much more manpower is gained somehow) and even worse, I think Xonotic will decay because of that on the long run (actually that has started already..). In the end, Xonotic will be a place where nerds giggle playing it on their freebsd toaster in an emacs environment, using x-rated pony models.

How to solve this? Make public play more casual, e.g. "steal" from the overkill mod to make vanilla more accessible and let the competitive players design their own mode that is not some half-as*ed compromise but hardcore fps as its best.