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[SUGGESTION] Immediate release

#1
Hi, I'm a long-time player of Nexuiz. From my not-so-inside perspective, it appears as if there is a fairly unanimous shift of development from Nexuiz to Xonotic by the developer community members. I wonder what will happen with the non-developing, player community though? At present there isn't really anything for them to get on board with (since there is no first release available). In addition, the momentum of the shift to Xonotic surely wane at some point.

I know that the future development plans for Xonotic far exceed the current forked code, but can I suggest that an initial release is done ASAP? I'm talking about changing "Nexuiz" strings to "Xonotic", switching some textures and samples and releasing immediately here! Future changes could obviously be made afterwards. That way, the whole community can come across and Xonotic can ride the exodus wave!
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#2
There seems to be a plan to release a Xonotic 0.9 beta if i may call it that way.. But there are still some loose ends that need to be taken care of first. Like patching the engine to support Xonotic as a standalone game, finish all the stuff that was active when the switch occurred, warpzones, hud and weapon balancing. IMO it would be bad to shove just 'a rename' out of the door and show an unpolished thing. However i think it would be nice to get such a 0.9 within 3 weeks if possible.
In the mean time the non-devs can only continue playing and i think it will still be fun.. Smile
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#3
This would make an excellent v0.9 release, but with the new art direction I'm not sure how well it would go over. This isn't to say that I don't agree with your point that the fervor for X will die down while the players wait for the first release, but I just don't know if its appropriate on all grounds to do a release so soon with so few changes.
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#4
I only have one advice:

DON'T RUSH A RELEASE.

(Sorry for caps but it had to be said)

I will happily wait for a release. The more you rush the more the quality declines. Just let it take the time it takes.
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#5
Releasing what's already out there is not a good idea.
People will just think: "looks like nexuiz, might as well just keep playing nexuiz".
Take your time to make the changes needed to separate this project from nexuiz.
Like George Bussard would say: "when its done."
Just don't switch engines Tongue
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#6
Xonotic Statement "More frequent releases"

I think there should be a Beta release

Just put in a disclaimer that this version is an early release and most of the changes are not in it yet.

My question is how will this work with the servers? Will Xonotic work with Nexuiz servers?
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#7
Quote:I think there should be a Beta release

It has already been stated that there propably will be a 0.9 Beta release. This release will come when it's ready and not before that. If Xonotic wants to live out to "more frequent releases" i'd say it only counts after the first one has been released.

Rushing things is always a bad idea. It's going to take time and we're going to have to accept that and support the devs!

Quote:My question is how will this work with the servers? Will Xonotic work with Nexuiz servers?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm quite certain this question has been answered with "no" before. This is Xonotic and not thegamethatshallnotbenamed...
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#8
(03-24-2010, 12:09 PM)Ilaith Wrote: Rushing things is always a bad idea. It's going to take time and we're going to have to accept that and support the devs!

I disagree ( But I still Heart you). I think we need to "Strike While the Iron Is Hot".

I not saying they should rush the release , I just think we should take small steps not big leaps.

With an early release we can start to build the infrastructure needed for the new game (map repos , master servers, servers , and so on)

Either way, I support the Devs . They Rock! Big Grin
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#9
(03-24-2010, 12:09 PM)Ilaith Wrote: Rushing things is always a bad idea. It's going to take time and we're going to have to accept that and support the devs!
(03-24-2010, 12:42 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: I disagree ( But I still Heart you). I think we need to "Strike While the Iron Is Hot".

Strike the iron whit what? As far as I understand it, there is little art to include. And only warp zone's and portals on the programming side. I could be wrong on this, so you may have a point.

(03-24-2010, 12:42 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: I not saying they should rush the release , I just think we should take small steps not big leaps.

With an early release we can start to build the infrastructure needed for the new game (map repos , master servers, servers , and so on)

Either way, I support the Devs . They Rock! Big Grin

That sounds more like a internal development release, witch isn't a bad idea. I would say to release it in a obscure place so the general player doesn't think its a official release. Maybe mentioning on startup that it is a "dev release".

It could be a release whit just 3 maps & player models to point out the art direction and to let others test stuff in xonotic.
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#10
I agree with Ilaith, the first release shouldn't be rushed.
[Image: 370.png] AKA [~] John Smith on Nexuiz
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#11
(03-24-2010, 12:42 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: I think we need to "Strike While the Iron Is Hot".

This is what I think too, but I guess it depends on what the goal is here...

If the goal here is to carry on development of Nexuiz (albeit under a different name) and provide a new home for it's community then I think an immediate release would be a good idea. I'm not suggesting you rush anything (especially not some buggy development snapshot!). A re-branded Nexuiz 2.5.2 would be ideal -- "re-branded" because Nexuiz has been re-branded!

On the other hand, if the goal here is to create an alternative FPS that stands apart from Nexuiz with it's (superior) features/graphics/etc., then, no, perhaps a good long stint of development time first would be a better way forward.

I was just concerned that if some time goes by before a Xonotic 0.9 beta comes out, the Nexuiz community will end up fractured. Is [insert clan here] really going to run another set of servers for Xonotic? I guess some will and some won't. Whereas if you strike while the iron's hot, maybe the majority of the community would come over to Xonotic now. With the abundance of development energy surrounding Xonotic, I know I would.

Just food for thought! Smile
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#12
I think realeasing fast is really not a good idea. If there are no changes between Nexuiz and Xonotic, why would we release?

Plus, after the changes are made, lots of things have to be tested. Releasing a broken thing is the least wanted thing.

So, as others have said before: don't rush things!
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#13
Quote:If the goal here is to carry on development of Nexuiz (albeit under a different name) and provide a new home for it's community then I think an immediate release would be a good idea. I'm not suggesting you rush anything (especially not some buggy development snapshot!). A re-branded Nexuiz 2.5.2 would be ideal -- "re-branded" because Nexuiz has been re-branded!

Re-branding takes time. Not to forget: there (propably) is content in Nexuiz, whose authors don't want it included in Xonotic. This is not a matter of days or even weeks. It's going to take time and it's important that we understand just that. Just a rebranding may take a couple of months unless we want to sink down to the level of alienTRAP/Illfonic and just use stuff without asking the authors.

Quote:On the other hand, if the goal here is to create an alternative FPS that stands apart from Nexuiz with it's (superior) features/graphics/etc., then, no, perhaps a good long stint of development time first would be a better way forward.

Xonotic will in time stand apart from Nexuiz. The Nexuiz development is not likely to continue with most devs coming here, thus any change already makes Xonotic stand apart from Nexuiz. These changes might take some time, a priority at the moment seems to be the playermodels and there's been some remaking/fixing of maps going on.

Quote:I was just concerned that if some time goes by before a Xonotic 0.9 beta comes out, the Nexuiz community will end up fractured. Is [insert clan here] really going to run another set of servers for Xonotic? I guess some will and some won't. Whereas if you strike while the iron's hot, maybe the majority of the community would come over to Xonotic now. With the abundance of development energy surrounding Xonotic, I know I would.

In my opinion there is no Nexuiz community anymore, I've checked their forums from now and then and theres basically noone on there, while both here and in the irc for Xonotic there's really something going on that won't vanish within weeks. Nexuiz updates are at this point kind of unlikely, meaning whatever happens it will be outdated in comparison to Xonotic unless they come up with something quick. (and no repackaging doesn't count as a new version in my world.

There was something written about there being agreements with major clans to switch to Xonotic as soon as it's available. Remember many of the people in the clans are propably involved in Xonotic development or close friends to the developers (server admins in particular).

I don't know where this idea of "striking now" comes from but it seems to be based on the fact that the devs have a RC version of Xonotic. As far as I'm concerned this is not the case yet. I'm quite confident that as soon as there is a playable version of Xonotic it will be released. But we can't strike with nothing.

The only people I believe are still in what you refer to as "the nexuiz community" are people that awarely oppose against Xonotic. There are people playing Nexuiz that are not aware of what has happened at all, though these people can hardly be called part of the community as they are vultures who just consume the game without asking questions. Once the servers shut down (which will happen) and alert their players (with that .cfg) they'll come running to "our side".

TLDR version: PATIENCE!
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#14
The first release should not be rushed, it should be polished. If you want, check out git and build it yourself.
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#15
*Historic words*

It'll be done when it's done.
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#16
(03-24-2010, 10:36 AM)edam Wrote: Hi, I'm a long-time player of Nexuiz. From my not-so-inside perspective, it appears as if there is a fairly unanimous shift of development from Nexuiz to Xonotic by the developer community members. I wonder what will happen with the non-developing, player community though? At present there isn't really anything for them to get on board with (since there is no first release available). In addition, the momentum of the shift to Xonotic surely wane at some point.

I know that the future development plans for Xonotic far exceed the current forked code, but can I suggest that an initial release is done ASAP? I'm talking about changing "Nexuiz" strings to "Xonotic", switching some textures and samples and releasing immediately here! Future changes could obviously be made afterwards. That way, the whole community can come across and Xonotic can ride the exodus wave!

I think that releasing a 'rename' will ultimately just confuse people. It's no better than a certain company *cough* releasing a certain game with an erroneous name. If we take the time to polish the game off and give it a face-lift in the process, then we will not only absorb the 'other' games' community but we will impress and retain them.
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#17
(03-24-2010, 12:50 PM)O.I.B. Wrote: That sounds more like a internal development release, witch isn't a bad idea. I would say to release it in a obscure place so the general player doesn't think its a official release. Maybe mentioning on startup that it is a "dev release".

It could be a release whit just 3 maps & player models to point out the art direction and to let others test stuff in xonotic.

I like that idea.
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#18
Quote:I disagree ( But I still you). I think we need to "Strike While the Iron Is Hot".

I not saying they should rush the release , I just think we should take small steps not big leaps.
Entirely missing the point.. "Strike while the iron is hot" is retarded when it comes to game development, especially when the code base is still very unstable and it's still very similar to the game we just branched off from. We need new artwork, a lot of re-written code, and other major changes first. And most importantly, it needs to be made stable. Essentially, releasing even within a few months is a horrible idea because there is simply no way we can do it successfully and in a way that will satisfy the community.


P.S.: You remember 2.5.2, right? Tongue
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#19
@Ilaith: no need to ask the authors because Nexuiz and Xonotic are both under GPL, so the content can be copied and worked upon without author's consent.

I think Samual said it like it is. Remember that some people started working on a story and a setting. Perfecting that will take time, but side by side the developers will make changes to the code. So nothing gets left behind.

Be patient please.
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#20
Quote:no need to ask the authors because Nexuiz and Xonotic are both under GPL, so the content can be copied and worked upon without author's consent.


Yes the game itself but there's also the issue with maps and other 3rd party material...
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#21
The whole of Nexuiz is/was GPL licenced. Including the game data. So there really is NO issue here.
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#22
(03-25-2010, 07:24 AM)Aleator Wrote: @Ilaith: no need to ask the authors because Nexuiz and Xonotic are both under GPL, so the content can be copied and worked upon without author's consent.
Technically and legally, by licensing work as GPL, you ARE giving consent.


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#23
(03-24-2010, 12:50 PM)O.I.B. Wrote: It could be a release whit just 3 maps & player models to point out the art direction and to let others test stuff in xonotic.
Good idea. I wouldn't release anything before the game has reached that stage yet though. The first 0.x release, however small it is, has to be good enough to get the previously existing Nexuiz community as well as new players hooked and excited for the full new game.
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#24
There is no reason to make a release to test artistic style. Those can be tested on the current release of Nexuiz.
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