[SUGGESTION] Rocket Launcher vs. Mortar Balance

Hey there,

I was just looking through the current damage values, and was able to confirm my suspicions: the RL is by far more powerful than the Mortar in both direct hits and splash damage.

This doesn't make sense to me.

The Mortar is harder to aim, has a shorter range, and is slower than the RL, as far as I can tell.

And the RL also (theoretically) uses extra power to fire itself like it does. Therefore, part of its explosive power should be used up... but it is actually much more powerful.

I move that the RL should have higher damage stats than the RL, and that the RL's strength should diminish the further it goes (thus making it into less of a sniping weapon).

This would balance the two against each other much better, allowing them to both still be used as they are, but specializing them away from each other, making them more unique.

I think it would speed up the game some too, but I might be wrong.

What are your thoughts? Am I off my rocker?

EDIT: I recently re-uploaded the files on the thread I linked because they were broken. Use the new files instead of old ones.

Given how ridiculously fast the rockets move I don't think it makes much sense either. Though balanceFruit isn't the ONLY balance file out there. There's a set of physics and balance that I made currently in the game right now that you can execute and I also made another using most of Fruitiex's physics. Maybe you should try those out. Also in addition to these, I think divVerent and tZork are working on a balance/physics set as well.

Fruitphys VS BalanceLeeStricklin (I recommend you give this one a try, the modified physics are better than mine)
http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=1193


Balance and physicsLeeStricklin
Open your console and type this in before creating a game in the multiplayer menu:

exec balanceLeeStricklin.cfg
exec physicsLeeStricklin.cfg

Start a game

The mortar is easier to use in close combat then the RL imo. As for the 'sniping' with the rockets, your off your rocker it takes some timing/prediction to time with them. Diminishing it's effect over distance is just going a way to making everything so you can't do damage with weapons over distance which is silly and remove's the whole point of ranged weapons, if you get lucky with a long range shot so be it, but NO damage fall off for rockets!

FrutieX has increased the mortar damage now as it was being a bit useless before in comparison, and as far as I know he's nearly pretty happy now with everything with the current weapons, damage/how they work, I have to say I really enjoy it and I see more people playing now getting on the server and having a go/getting used to things, even though hitting on the edge with rocket's annoys me because I am expecting more damage, but that's the tradeoff, you hit close you do more damage.

The mortar is easier to use in close combat then the RL imo. As for the 'sniping' with the rockets, your off your rocker it takes some timing/prediction to time with them. Diminishing it's effect over distance is just going a way to making everything so you can't do damage with weapons over distance which is silly and remove's the whole point of ranged weapons, if you get lucky with a long range shot so be it, but NO damage fall off for rockets!

* nods * Makes sense. Thanks!

FrutieX has increased the mortar damage now as it was being a bit useless before in comparison, and as far as I know he's nearly pretty happy now with everything with the current weapons, damage/how they work, I have to say I really enjoy it and I see more people playing now getting on the server and having a go/getting used to things, even though hitting on the edge with rocket's annoys me because I am expecting more damage, but that's the tradeoff, you hit close you do more damage.

So is that in the current master branch that I would be using, or do I need to use a different cfg file to use those edits?

Just for reference, these are the current (November 27, 2010) settings in the default config file.

Code:

set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_type 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_damage 50
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_edgedamage 32
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_force 300
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_radius 115
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_speed 1500
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_speed_up 225
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_speed_z 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_spread 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_lifetime 5
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_lifetime2 0.65
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_refire 0.8
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_animtime 0.4
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_ammo 2
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_health 80
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_damageforcescale 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_primary_remote_minbouncecnt 0

set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_type 1
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_damage 70
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_edgedamage 32
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_force 300
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_radius 150
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_speed 1000
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_speed_up 250
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_speed_z 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_spread 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_lifetime 3
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_lifetime2 0.65
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_refire 0.8
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_animtime 0.4
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_ammo 2
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_health 40
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_damageforcescale 0
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_secondary_remote_detonateprimary 0

set g_balance_grenadelauncher_bouncefactor 0.5
set g_balance_grenadelauncher_bouncestop 0.12

and the RL:

Code:

set g_balance_rocketlauncher_damage 90
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_edgedamage 33
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_force 350
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_radius 125
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_speed 1600
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_speedaccel 1600
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_speedstart 800
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_lifetime 5
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_refire 1
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_animtime 0.4
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_ammo 3
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_health 0
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_damageforcescale 0
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_detonatedelay 0.05 // positive: timer till detonation is allowed, negative: "security device" that prevents ANY remote detonation if it could hurt its owner, zero: detonatable at any time
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_guiderate 45 // max degrees per second
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_guideratedelay 0.01 // immediate
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_guidegoal 512 // goal distance for (non-laser) guiding (higher = less control, lower = erratic)
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_guidedelay 0.15 // delay before guiding kicks in
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_guidestop 0 // stop guiding when firing again
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_remote_damage 50
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_remote_edgedamage 16.5
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_remote_radius 120
set g_balance_rocketlauncher_remote_force 350

And this is pretty self explanatory.

Note: Even though the RL is more powerful than the GL, it also uses more ammo (this is the

Code:

g_balance_rocketlauncher_ammo

) so it is at least halfway justified.

needs more delay set to 0....

t!!

:^

Awesome. Thanks.

Hmm... perhaps all that is needed is to increase the power of the edge damage on the mortar to 40. Aiming doesn't have to be as precise that way, and makes it a bit more unique from the RL. At least in my view.

'Course, I ain't picky, and I am not about to rage quite just because of the way it is. haha!

You can kill RL guys with the Mortar so easy, because the Mortar grenades usually blow the rockets up and kill the enemy. Mortar ftw! Its fine.

^- that, and to be added - mortar primary's can not be blown up by other explosives.

Actually blowing up rockets is one of the most annoying things ever, however as of the moment I haven't seen it happen too much because the radius are much better now, so it actually requires a bit more skill :p

imo it makes sense to balance them as a tradeoff of damage versus radius. one should have lower damage, but a much higher splash radius, and the other should have higher damage but smaller splash radius.

ill let you decide which is which.

There working fine as they are at the moment though.

RL is slower (starts out at 1000 ups), mortar faster (1500 ups)
RL has a longer refire time (1 sec) than the mortar (0.8)

Oh and i increased the radius of the mortar slightly (from 100 to 115), it should be quite a bit more usable now.

We can make RL a mid-range weapon by reducing its starting speed and acceleration. And probably making it more powerful since you won't fire as often guiding it on mid-range.

http://forums.xonotic.org/attachment.php?aid=198
In this balance the Mortar was very powerful
If you want it powerful try it

extract the file into your "xonotic\data\" folder, open xonotic, start a map and type "exec balance-physic_rzde.cfg"

Have Fun xD