Planning for major weapon updates

You don't like bullet hell? I LOVE bullet hell, guess it's just personal taste I guess.

That right there is what is going to make Xonotic stand up against Unreal Tournament (99), Quake Live, Warsow, and pretty much any other arena shooter.

I'm sorry, but bullet hell and randomness won't make Xonotic stand up to the other arena shooters. Not even close right now. It's WAY too hard to control what's happening around you with the current settings.

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sort out issues with how spammy it is (was) currently and some randomness

Haha, I honestly did not read this post until after I wrote that above post.

bullet hell = fun stuff

Guess I sorta developed a taste for it from playing Siege (an RTS mod where you can build stuff while fighting on the ground) for UT99 back when that was really popular, the protector spam used to remind me of Ikaruga. Only difference is that Ikaruga seemed a bit easy after seeing that amount of chaos happen in first person ground warfare hehehe, that was pretty intense.

What are you on about Lee lol.

Shut up! I'm derailing the topic lol I guess I sorta got carried away with talking about bullet hell, something I think spun off of talking about the weapons being spammy or not being spammy enough.

Everyone shut up - This IS NOT a balance thread. gtfo.

Jeez, ridiculous -- I even said not to do it and you still did it.

If you have a concern about my balance, start another topic directly talking about that concern. Otherwise, don't bring it into this thread.

Well, considering that we have a thousand different balances it does make sense to keep concerns about one balance in one thread

Well, considering that we have a thousand different balances it does make sense to keep concerns about one balance in one thread

This isn't a balance thread.

I really wish a mod would delete these posts, thanks.

Sam-wise Gangee (Samual). Just to inform you I will be on IRC again tonight to chat to the rest of the team about and to test the latest settings etc

so , uhhh , rocket?
is that settled yet?
everyone happy with rocket?

omg , an idea guys , ok samuel (hi) , mate make a list of the weapons , then we open one 4 disscussion , vote on it , then close it 4 ever , that way we arnt going over it all again and again , etc

weapon reviews could be reviewed at next game update (a big update) , maybe...

i may of missed this idea , if its been sed before , pardon me


:^

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oh and pardon me on ya spkellin of ya name sam , :/

Its being handled Chooksta

and?

Add weapons, don't remove them please. I like the hagar as is and the tag as is, I like it's "spam" defensive secondary. Make the lightning gun, don't take away the hagar or the tag. If you want make a setting so we can go back to the old way if you need your change but don't take it away completely please.

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Funny and kinda rediculious that people argue about "balance" or "settings" when they can easily make their own they like in a few days.

Please don't remove weaps. Add and refine.

The additional behavior to the crylink that's in xonotic, for instance, is really cool.
The new mine layer is great.

I actually really find the hagar as is very useful. But I use my own "balance" where the weapons are actually deadly.
The tag is fun too, a defensive gun on secondary which is nice.

Spam is fine, my network can handle it .
Please don't remove weapon.
Add cvars so we can set how those weaps behave, please dont take away.

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I like that you're adding magazine cvars to the uzi (shotgun too please?) just like the sniper rifle. I asked for this awhile ago, thankyou very much for doing it. It will allow us to make configs where one has to you know... reload sometimes, not endlessly shoot from the magic ammo place for bullet based weaps. This way bullet weaps are not the same as energy weaps.

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Ok if you're removing the halac im making a fork.
This is nexuiz all over again, but figures since it's the same people.

I'll quote my answer on the hagar - seeker merge idea from another topic:

I'm very much against merging the hagar and seeker. Especially since I made a change for the hagar that brings a new alt firing mode (hold to load rockets, release to fire them), which IMO is much prettier and unique for Xonotic. Posted about it somewhere else though, and it's on my test server too.

Still, hagar and seeker have different purposes and uses. And merging them just because both can fire rockets quickly is a very bad idea IMO. Instead, I find tweaking and changing how they work a good idea The Seeker can likely be made into something much more interesting and different.

Samuel: Please understand: this is not quake, there are many more weapon slots and divverent can add more if need be.
He's done so twice allready in the past!

Please don't remove weaps. Refine them like was done with the crylink.
Or what was, before, done with bullet weapons when ballistic bullets were introduced (so much more fun than normal).

Add more weaps, then refine them. Don't delete.

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MirceaKitsune:
can you post your hagar patch, i'd like to apply it to my branch

if the hagar is removed, its function is going to be transfered to another weapon (or something similar to its function). it will not be gone, per se. same goes for the other weapons he is proposing to remove.

I agree with SelfPropelledArty really. Even if a few weeks back, I militated for removing the Seeker. I don't any more because I realized it can be improved and changed instead (its firing modes as well as the ugly weapon model with a better one). And it doesn't need to work like the Hagar at all, like I said. Its primary fire is already pretty different. Secondary fire... we can certainly find a fancy idea of launching a differently working player-seeking rocket with it

As for my Hagar change: It's not a patch, but a GIT branch. Either switch to the branch mirceakitsune/weapon_hagar_secondary_load in xonotic-data.pk3dir, or join my test server which will automatically send the gamecode to you (although the sounds and crosshair ring won't work if you don't switch to the branch and compile, but you can still fire the new rockets and see how they work). My test server is 169.254.31.214:26010 ("MirceaKitsune's git TEST server").

[offtopic]

I like that you're adding magazine cvars to the uzi (shotgun too please?) just like the sniper rifle. I asked for this awhile ago, thankyou very much for doing it. It will allow us to make configs where one has to you know... reload sometimes, not endlessly shoot from the magic ammo place for bullet based weaps. This way bullet weaps are not the same as energy weaps.

I dislike reloads. I believe that tZork and others also held this position. Personally I would like to see the one on the Sniper Rifle removed. If you are engaged in a firefight and you finish a clip, then you switch to different gun and finish that one and so one... till later when you hide in a corner and scroll through your weapons just letting them reload... <= does not fit in with this game's gameplay IMHO. Just my two £.

Or what was, before, done with bullet weapons when ballistic bullets were introduced (so much more fun than normal).

Oh hi, YouRemovedBallistics.

I'm very much against merging the hagar and seeker. Especially since I made a change for the hagar that brings a new alt firing mode (hold to load rockets, release to fire them), which IMO is much prettier and unique for Xonotic. Posted about it somewhere else though, and it's on my test server too.

Haven't tried it yet but if you can make a weapon unique (eliminating redundancy with other weapons) then (I) don't see a reason to delete it (this is why it was being deleted/merged before, it was redundant with the HLAC).

The charge-and-release system is a good idea but I'm not sure it belongs on the Hagar, for some reason it doesn't seem to fit. Seems like a energy thing maybe. IDK.
[/offtopic]

I do not even view the sniper rifle as a sniper rifle, but treat it like it should be treated as: a carbine. I actually like the idea of a reload on the rifle, but can't picture any other weapons working well with one. If you take a look at my balance, you can get an idea as to what I think the rifle should be treated as. As for the weapon mergings that are going on, he's simply removing redundancy; overlapping functions. The functions of all the weapons will still remain in the game after this, which is why I'm not opposed to it and ammo types will PROPERLY AND EVENLY be distributed between all of them, something that desperately needs to happen.

Personally I think either hagar OR seeker should go, both cannot exist at the same time due to their very nature (rapid-ish fire rockets). Honestly I really like Taoki's hagar though, and I kinda dislike how the seeker turned out... The seeker just doesn't feel like it fits in the game, and it's annoying to be shot at by it.

Without new sounds/particles/models for the seeker, I really think we should just decide between the seeker or hagar.


As for reload on MG: I plan on making the reload much shorter for it -- right now it's 2 seconds, because the animation is so long.. I can't help it until we get a new animation.


BTW, just to clarify... weapons are never actually removed -- just hidden from default maps and weaponarena. Even if we do remove some weapons, they will still technically exist most likely.

cant you speed up/slow down animations in the framegroups file?