05-07-2014, 08:29 PM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2014, 08:30 PM by MirceaKitsune.)
So... where should I begin? At least for me, Xonotic has always been a combination of things I love and things I never really liked. The things I enjoy about Xonotic are the fantastic quality and art, the flexibility and efficiency of the code, the weapons / maps / gametypes, and I could probably list more. The thing I always hated on the other hand are the default balance and physics, combined with my notorious disappointment over the developers losing interest in getting any new art or quality in master (player / weapon models, sounds, maps, etc). Due to this, I long wanted to take what I consider best of both worlds (the current Xonotic and the Xonotic I want) and create a new FPS game. Several months ago, I finally began working on this initiative.
Fear not... I am not forking Xonotic and going my own way! The project I'm working on is a mod, which will run on top of Xonotic. Although I might make a standalone version, I'll be primarily maintaining it on top of Xonotic GIT. The mod will always use Xonotic's game code only, so recompiling will never be needed either. In fact, it should remain compatible with Xonotic servers too, meaning it won't need a separate server list. From a technical point of view, it's simply a data2 folder containing new settings and some new models / textures / sounds. In practice though, I aim it to be a different game based on the art and code of Xonotic.
My project is based on two wishes. The first is a FPS with saner, more classic, but still fast paced balance and physics. Default Xonotic gameplay is about levitating throughout maps at super-sonic speeds, constantly using the Laser to bounce all over the place, and there's little to no limits on how you get your health and ammo. The gameplay I want is closer to that of Unreal Tournament; You explore the map by walking, although you can use tricks (such as dodging) to gain extra speed, while the Laser can only be used to jump a little higher than normal (like to get on top of crates). Rather than zapping past your enemies, you face them and fight... shooting while using the slow physics at their best to dodge enemy fire. Health powerups won't give the same amount of health, and only small / mega health shall grant you more than 100 HP. There will also be little or no health / armor regeneration and rot, as one should rely on pickups to recover their health while not losing over-health for no reason either.
The second wish is a FPS where good art is improved even further. From this point of view, Xonotic has been completely dead. It's a miracle for any new map to still be accepted in master, while we haven't seen a new sound / weapon model / player model / song in years! The maps and environments typically feel the same... just facilities with metal walls and floors. My project aims to include everything available and license compatible as long as it's of quality and does not impede a fun gameplay. Further more it strives for diversion; Apart from facilities and factories, there should also be medieval maps, outdoor maps, cities, and even weird maps like pipe tunnels or space stations with low gravity. I also wish to give more attention to other details... such as the singleplayer campaign and playing with bots. Also, with all due respect Xonotic's music artists, music in Xonotic isn't better than the average mall music IMO (with some exceptions). I wish to find greater and more exciting battle music for this... something that feels alive!
The balance and physics are obviously simple to tweak, so they aren't a problem. The reason I'm making this thread so early is because I need help finding good art! I'd like everyone interested to share what they've done or could find around the internet; Player models, weapon models, sounds, HUD / menu skins, as well as maps (especially unusual and grand ones). Everything of quality and GPL compatible will be used to create a greater environment. No, it doesn't need to be created specifically for Xonotic... I'm already using stuff from opengameart.org and anywhere else that works.
Here's a more in-depth description of each thing I'm looking for. If you know anything that matches, please post here and point me to it:
Maps:
One theme that's horribly lacking are medieval environments. I'm not talking just about medieval castles... but even places such as Egyptian temples or other ancient sets of any sort! Nexuiz had maps like Farewell for that purpose... whereas the best Xonotic has is Stormkeep, which was already turned into a facility with metal floors long ago.
Outdoor maps are the second thing I've been trying to get done for Xonotic. Sadly, Darkplaces isn't quite the best engine suited for terrain. But that doesn't mean good ones aren't possible at all, and I'm pretty sure they can work out if terrain is designed properly. This is something I'll keep trying to do myself, but if you already know some good ones please do inform me.
Other than that, there are several other types of environments that could greatly expand the map list. City maps are yet another one... and with BSP they're actually easy to make! And what about hell maps... stone structures surrounded by lava and a blood red sky?
From a technical perspective, I only have a few requirements for maps. First of all, they must not use textures from the Nexuiz compatibility package, and only rely on Xonotic's default textures... although maps can add their own textures too. Second, they must contain bot waypoints... maps that cannot be played by bots will not be added. Waypointing isn't hard, so if a map is really good I will do it myself. Lastly, it mustn't be a ripoff of maps from other games or ports of Quake maps, nor community maps who's authors aren't okay with sharing. Maps inspired by any other map are however alright, as long as they're different enough.
If someone doesn't feel like making a map from scratch, but would still like to help with both my initiative and giving Xonotic itself more varied maps, don't forget that you can re-texture existing maps. Including Nexuiz ones which have enough BSP detail, and could be re-themed with art from the Xonotic packages.
Player models:
If any new ones are welcome, it's probably some extra alien and robot races that would do... of unique and strange kinds. I won't insist much here however, since I already know most websites that offer character models and will find them there if anything. And since I must manually rig and weight paint any potential model to the Xonotic player armature for animations, this is an even more sensitive topic.
Something willing artists can however do to help, is creating extra skins for the existing player models. Having people aliens and robots with different traits will expand the environment greatly! For example, try modifying Pyria's texture to make her look like a chinese lady, or Ignis to look like a russian soldier with scars on his face. I'm bad at texturing, and this is something I'd rather encourage good artists to try first.
Weapon models:
Theme isn't a problem here... anything that looks like a respective weapon just works. Some of the existing weapon models are also fine... although there are still many of lower quality which I wish to replace.
If there's anything I'd like specifically, it's animated weapon models. As in weapons that have parts which rotate / move when you shoot. At some point many years ago, Nexuiz had animated versions of some of the existing weapons. Perhaps someone knows where I could still find a download for them?
Anyway, several good ones were made and posted around here over the years. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to find and link those they remember, as long as a download source is still available. Only technical requirement is that they're Blender compatible, as that is what I use.
Sounds:
Most existing sounds are good... both item sounds as well as ambient map audio. If I need any new ones I can find them on my own.
Music:
Thankfully good music under free licenses exists, although it's not always easy to find either. What I'm looking for is grander music... something that sounds cool and exciting, rather than boring and just there to fill the ambiance. I imagine heavier music fits best for any FPS, but some genres of disco music are probably just as great. What I'd personally love to hear again is music like 90's games used to have (Unreal, DeusEx, etc) although that's sadly a rare beauty to find.
05-08-2014, 06:40 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014, 06:46 AM by MirceaKitsune.)
(05-08-2014, 03:57 AM)Karamel Wrote: So if I summary your mod has two objectives:
Tweak balance and physics (i.e. have an other game like mistahook or overkill are)
Enhance Xonotic game content
The second point is there only because master looks kind of frozen, right? (even if I think modified physics implies incompatible maps)
If it was just tweaking the balance and physics, a whole mod wouldn't have been as necessary and logical, and I could simply post the config files. Although back in Nexuiz, there used to be a secondary mod directory called "Havoc Mode" for way less than what I'm trying to do here.
I aim to change the look and feel of Xonotic as much as possible, in every aspect that works with the same game code. This means not only a new balance and physics... but also new defaults for potentially any cvar (menu and client and server), changing various models and textures and sounds, adding new maps and players, a different default HUD, a new single player campaign, new bots, music changed on most maps, and possibly even more.
Such art will also be maintained under a new polity. Which is "everything of quality and GPL compatible is considered for inclusion, and any art can be further improved at any moment". Unlike the current policy in Xonotic, which at least to me personally seems to be "we only accept maps after 100 people have played them for 10 months and they're completely perfect, we no longer want new player models because we aren't sure if we're even keeping the existing ones, and we don't care about contributions in general because no one has the time to test a few lines of code each week". I don't mean to sound overly critical here, some of it is understandable even... but this does disappoint me and I want to change it.
No, it's not just because updates in master have gotten very slow... it's because no one wants to make / find / include good art any more, nor consider new ideas and approaches. I frequently asked the team to add several new maps of quality, but always got a negative answer for various reasons. Last time I tried submitting art myself was when I made the Terminus player model, which I believe is of quality and matches Xonotic's theme perfectly. No one even objected to its quality at all. Yet it was rejected because "the developers don't know what they want to do with player models yet". Not to mention the long debated UBot... which is of excellent quality, matches Xonotic's theme perfectly IMHO, yet was still never wanted. Needless to say, both of them are already included in the mod I'm developing... and will also be used by its default bots and campaign.
(05-08-2014, 05:22 AM)machine! Wrote: Why would you need custom art for this mod? Sounds more like a tweak on the balace would be enough, but I did not read the whole thing.
See above. It's not just a tweak to the balance and physics, it's a completely different setup which will focus primarily on new art as well as entirely different settings for potentially anything.
05-08-2014, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014, 10:36 AM by machine!.)
Sounds like an artwork fork. Sorry but I have to say this sounds like waste of time, at least for me that don't care much about artwork itself but consistency. IMO what Xonotic needs right now is some big changes like adding LG, some new GOOD maps (grudge? qw darkzone? there's probably more worthy of inclusion...), sevs items, and big fat fuck yeah looking trailer and tons of spam all over internet about Xonotic (PR).
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, your project sounds interesting and fun, but I am personally more interested in Xonotic itself than new mods.
(05-08-2014, 10:34 AM)machine! Wrote: Sounds like an artwork fork. Sorry but I have to say this sounds like waste of time, at least for me that don't care much about artwork itself but consistency. IMO what Xonotic needs right now is some big changes like adding LG, some new GOOD maps (grudge? qw darkzone? there's probably more worthy of inclusion...), sevs items, and big fat fuck yeah looking trailer and tons of spam all over internet about Xonotic (PR).
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, your project sounds interesting and fun, but I am personally more interested in Xonotic itself than new mods.
Not everyone is interested in the art and how Xonotic looks that much, so that's understandable. For those who are however, there's now this initiative.
And agreed about the maps. Although considering that nearly no new content is accepted in master like I said, new maps like you listed are one of the things my mod will solve.
05-08-2014, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2014, 02:19 PM by poVoq.)
I would say instead of mixing artstyles go full medival/fantasy. A fast paced multiplayer FPS with crossbows sounds fun
Cool for that would be to port over the modifiable hightmap terrain code from qwFTE to have large outdoor maps, then take all the nice outdoor textures and tree models from yughues (see OGA) and add those awesome fantasy characters (the elf, wizard, barbarian and dwarf) that were commissioned on OGA a few years back (they are quite high-poly ~15k, but it should work).
Spent most of the day adding and texturing a new shotgun model, based on the textured Multigun on Opengameart. Here are a few screenshots of it, which also show the new HUD I've added for the time being:
(05-08-2014, 08:46 PM)MirceaKitsune Wrote: Spent most of the day adding and texturing a new shotgun model, based on the textured Multigun on Opengameart. Here are a few screenshots of it, which also show the new HUD I've added for the time being:
(05-09-2014, 02:37 AM)Pendulla Wrote: We need more vore!
There's a separate Nexuiz fork for that, but what's there stays there
(05-09-2014, 04:46 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: That looks friggin awesome!
Thank you, I'm glad you like! I still want to tweak the texture a bit and there is still a lot more to do. But that's a general view of what I'm hoping to achieve.
05-09-2014, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2014, 11:06 AM by MirceaKitsune.)
So this is being pretty exciting. Today I replaced the UZI model with the A-104 Cold Fusion Assault Rifle by PrSharkey. I also changed some weapon sounds to use some gorgeous sound sets by Michel Baradari. I soon hope to collect all good maps and use anything else I can find, and release an initial version until at most the new year.
05-10-2014, 08:10 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2014, 08:22 AM by Lee_Stricklin.)
If I have to take a guess, your making a mod that adds assets to the game that otherwise wouldn't find their way into it? It also sounds like you're trying to make a physics set closer to what I had in mind a few years ago, where bunnyhopping was primarily used for moving large distances while running (with the occasional jump) is your usual means for handling yourself during a fight. I very much look forward to what you do and I hope it goes a long way to revitalize this project. btw one asset you should immediately include (if you ever did waypoints on it) would be Lab 610. It's by far one of the most creative I've seen for any game and would work good with a UT-style balance.
(05-10-2014, 08:10 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: If I have to take a guess, your making a mod that adds assets to the game that otherwise wouldn't find their way into it? It also sounds like you're trying to make a physics set closer to what I had in mind a few years ago, where bunnyhopping was primarily used for moving large distances while running (with the occasional jump) is your usual means for handling yourself during a fight. I very much look forward to what you do and I hope it goes a long way to revitalize this project. btw one asset you should immediately include (if you ever did waypoints on it) would be Lab 610. It's by far one of the most creative I've seen for any game and would work good with a UT-style balance.
That's pretty much correct. In essence, it is a mod (data2 folder) which does three things: Has new physics / balance / settings, adds new content (maps / characters), replaces some of the existing art (models / textures / sounds).
Lab 610 will be among the many maps included. It might be delayed for a bit however, since I noticed there's some problems with the barrels and physics not working properly for them.
05-12-2014, 07:59 AM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2014, 08:08 AM by lamefun.)
(05-07-2014, 08:29 PM)MirceaKitsune Wrote: Everything of quality and GPL compatible will be used to create a greater environment. No, it doesn't need to be created specifically for Xonotic...
I can't find anything on whether you can mix GPL and CC-BY[-SA] art assets, so unless someone clarifies I have to assume... Another loss for free software! Another win for proprietary software!
P.S. Never mind. From http://dev.xonotic.org/projects/3/wiki/Legal :
"You may also reuse the work of others, provided that this work is licensed under a license that allows you to freely relicense your work under the GPL. This includes commonly used CC-BY (note that ShareAlike and NonCommercial are NOT compatible), the Artistic License and the MIT License."
05-12-2014, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2014, 09:55 PM by Lee_Stricklin.)
(05-09-2014, 10:52 AM)MirceaKitsune Wrote: So this is being pretty exciting. Today I replaced the UZI model with the A-104 Cold Fusion Assault Rifle by PrSharkey. I also changed some weapon sounds to use some gorgeous sound sets by Michel Baradari. I soon hope to collect all good maps and use anything else I can find, and release an initial version until at most the new year.
As cool looking as the weapon model is, I think it would benefit from a couple of modifications:
Remove the top part of it entirely and shrink the rifle down to about the size of a sub machine gun (try to keep the lower, stock, etc. the same scale though) to the point where the character model's offhand actually touches the grip under the barrel. (see attachment)
Things are still progressing, more or less slowly. As I'm getting to a point where my changes are becoming visible, I'm looking at getting a GIT repository. Merlijn is often away from IRC, but once I get a hold of him I will ask whether I may get one on the Xonotic server (like for Vore Tournament) if he feels there's enough drive space left. If not I'll probably go with GITHub... though I'd prefer the Xonotic server a lot more. I plan to commit various categories of changes (weapon models, weapon sounds, players, etc) slowly, as I feel my work in an area is complete enough.
At this stage I also need to think of a good name... and names are one thing I'm bad at. I initially wanted something to reflect the quality the project strives for, so the name Crystalis came to mind. But since that's rather common, and I'd like something that keeps the Xonotic branding, I later changed that into Xalis. That's the name I'm sticking with for now, unless someone can think of a better one. If you do, please post here and let me know!
I spent the last two days gathering new awesome music from OGA, under GPL / CC-BY / PD. Today I finished converting them and putting together a new soundtrack for this project.
Xalis (if that remains the final name) will have 90 songs / 4 and a half hours of music. Yes, 90... that's how many good ones I could find! Since there will likely be as many maps, few of them should remain unused. Each song fits the theme and the different maps that could be added to Xalis.
Unlike mainstream Xonotic, the songs are both more detailed / lively and of different genres. Apart from electronic / disco songs, there are also a few heavy songs (electric guitar) as well as orchestra / dramatic music for large CTF or Assault maps. More than that, I've been specifically looking for 16-bit music, in the same style as they were done in the 90's games (such as UT99)... a time when games had great music rather than something dull like many today.
I tried maintaining an URL list for all songs I included, which I posted further below. Here's also some highlights, to give you a good idea of what you'll be hearing on the maps... I recommend giving them a listen:
(05-23-2014, 03:03 PM)aa Wrote: Seriously? That much? How much space does that takes up? What do you expect the final size of the game to be?
In final ogg format, all songs are less than 300 MB. But considering the maps sub-repository of Xonotic is over 6GB, large file size shouldn't be something uncommon.
Currently, the entire mod folder is only 1.6 GB. I don't expect it to grow way larger, although the final version might have +2 GB. I'm not re-including any map texture packages (they will be used from the normal data folder) which is are largest part of Xonotic, so that at least is fine. But since every weapon / player / etc is re-textured or tweaked, there still are a couple of big images in there... as well as most sounds having been replaced.
(05-23-2014, 03:03 PM)aa Wrote: Seriously? That much? How much space does that takes up? What do you expect the final size of the game to be?
In final ogg format, all songs are less than 300 MB. But considering the maps sub-repository of Xonotic is over 6GB, large file size shouldn't be something uncommon.
Currently, the entire mod folder is only 1.6 GB. I don't expect it to grow way larger, although the final version might have +2 GB. I'm not re-including any map texture packages (they will be used from the normal data folder) which is are largest part of Xonotic, so that at least is fine. But since every weapon / player / etc is re-textured or tweaked, there still are a couple of big images in there... as well as most sounds having been replaced.
This is looped for Xonotic, I made it for it. I aimed for something less complex, and more straightforward - it turned out a bit twisted (guitar solo parts), but maybe that's good.
I'm making Liblast - a FOSS online FPS game made with Godot 4 and a 100% open-source toolchain
06-05-2014, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2014, 01:21 PM by aa.)
This has got some nice sounding parts, but generally it is quite dull. Could use some more interesting stuff and a faster pace. Around 2:50 and afterwards is cool, could use more of that, but more and faster.
4:25 and the like don't actually fit for a fast paced game.
5:21 is also too slow, if sped and juiced up could be much better.
Yes, you said it is non-complex, but that makes it less interesting in my opinion.
In the very begging, i think it could be slightly heavier or contrasting.
1:08, the "dzing" sound could be used more.
Just tried playing with it, and it creates a calming feeling, not sure it fits in the current state.
I think some heavier parts and higher notes in some places will make it better.
Sorry but I have to say this sounds like waste of time, at least for me that don't care much about artwork itself but consistency. IMO what Xonotic needs right now is some big changes like adding LG, some new GOOD maps (grudge? qw darkzone? there's probably more worthy of inclusion...), sevs items, and big fat fuck yeah looking trailer and tons of spam all over internet about Xonotic (PR). 
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