TL;DR at bottom. However, I urge you to read through, please, before voting NO.
~~~
Hi y'all, my name is Drako.
I've jumped ship over from Sauerbraten and Red Eclipse in search of a more lively community, and just a generally more modern-designed Arena game.
I have a suggestion to make. And yup, it's just as the title says. I would like to have wall-jumping included.
I searched the forum, and the topic of wall-jumping was only mentioned once in this topic: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php...alljumping
It was mentioned as the 4th listed suggestion. Though while not everyone cared for it, there was no general pushback against it. I believe that the idea was generally looked over, as most of the people decided that the OP just wanted to change the whole game to make it like other games.
But before you decide too quickly, allow me to explain my stance with a Q&A list of likely asked questions:
~~~
Q: I like the game as it is, and wall-jumping would have a drastic effect on gameplay. Why would I support something that would change the way I have to play?
A: A lot of you are likely game-mode purists (that is, like to keep things vanilla, or as they currently are), but that's why I would like to request this as a MUTATOR. I understand that no one wants their game changed in a way they don't like, which is why the mutator point is important.
~~~
Q: OK, but why should I care?
A: I like to play with the grappling hook. By show of hands, how many of you like it, too? <- Rhetorical
Point is, I know there are some of you out there that would jump in to say that you don't care for it. But, at the end of the day, does the grappling hook option simply existing actually affect you?
All in all, we're all just trying to come together to play a great game. I don't care much for the Vampire mutator, but, if you asked me to support it, I would say, "Well, why not?!" Who am I to decide how others want to have fun, especially when it has no affect on me?
~~~
Q: Fair enough, but aren't there other games that feature parkour and shooting?
A: So, the big one most people might mention is Red Eclipse. Well, first off, although Red Eclipse does advertise itself as an Arena-shooter featuring parkour, the actual gameplay is actually next to nothing like real life parkour. In fact, there's actually no wall jumping. There's something like it, which I call wall-climbing, but all that really is, is spamming the impulse (jump) and parkour (wall-run) button to go stright up a wall. Angled jumps and 180* wall-kicks are completely impossible.
~~~
Q: Why not make a feature request?
A: Thing is, the game runs on the aging Cube 2 engine, and there's a general consensus that the game is dying, as expressed here: http://redeclipse.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1043
Also expressed is that there's not a whole lot that can be done, due to there only being one developer, which is barely a developer. Quinton Reeves is a great guy, but his actual skills in developing are quite limited, having no other experiences, and no formal education. He states his limited abilities in post #5 of the above mentioned topic. Most of the features that were implemented were helped by a long-time friend that did most of the programming work. Unfortunately, unless someone else comes in to save the day, a request like that would go nowhere.
The original game that I wanted to make a feature request for was a Parkour-game called Celaria: http://www.celaria.com/
I actually did make a feature request on the forum, going as far as saying I would personally fund the feature into existence, as stated here: http://forum.celaria.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=90
However, the main developer stated back that he wanted to focus on just the parkour aspect of the game. However, there was also another issue -- Celaria is made using Game Maker Studio, which, is a game engine that is actually optimized for 2D games. The developer stated that adding in an Arena-Style shooting game-mode just wouldn't work well with the engine.
After having been playing Xonotic with my brother for a while, I noticed that some of the maps have a certain feel to them that I think would make them work well with an extra feature like wall-jumping, especially maps that have a nice ramp placed somewhere, but doesn't actually really help get up anywhere. Maps like Xoylent, Solarium, and Running Man come to mind (Others, too).
~~~
Q: So, you just want to make Xonotic just like Celaria?
A: Does the grappling hook feature make Xonotic like Spider-Man 2? Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJq9oBkQftU (Hello again, 240p. ;3)
The answer is, no, it doesn't. Don't laugh, but I actually tried. I downloaded a city map with the grappling hook mutator enabled, and trust me, it does NOT work well.
But, just in general, this sort of question is an over-simplification. It assumes that adding a similar element of a game would make the game just like it. Celaria is an all around parkour game, and features many more things than just wall-jumping -- such as rolling, sliding, and ledge hanging/climbing. Its focus is parkour, and it shows. However, all I'm asking for is a simple when-I-come-in-contact-with-a-wall-I-can-jump-off-it feature. This single feature won't make Xonotic like Celaria, and I don't want it to be. I just think this would be a nice enhancement to the way that one can move about the maps.
But, just to backtrack a bit, I DO want the wall-jump to work similarly to Celaria's method, though, which is probably best shown here from seconds 0:01-0:11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnlNGRXtDQ
Basically, when the player model comes in contact with a wall, pressing space causes the character to jump off that wall. The direction is decided by which way the mouse is facing. Note that looking up has no effect on the height of the jump post-walljump.
Feel free to watch the entire video, or even play the game. It's multitudes of fun all on its own.
However, I would definitely put less momentum behind the jump. Celaria, when played right, can make you feel like you're flying. I just want a simple walljump more reminiscent of Super Mario 64.
~~~
Q: Still, why should the developers go through the trouble? Couldn't you just use the Blaster/Rocket Launcher/Super-Weapon?
A: While it's true that the splash-damage weapons give another method of mobility, one might not always have these weapons. Plus, not every place can be reached by these weapons alone, particular places too high to rocket up to. The grappling hook, on the other hand, just makes things too easy. Wall-jumping would be an always accessible method of movement, given that the mutator is selected. As a bonus, wall jumping wouldn't cause damage like rocket-jumping and blaster jumping does.
Otherwise, my offer from the Celaria page stands here as well. I am, definitely, willing to fund this feature in, however which way I can, and would be more than happy to test any implemented features out to get them right.
~~~
TL;DR
So, I hope I answered most of the questions and concerns anyone might have here already (and if you didn't read it, I urge you to do so. However, there's a summary below).
Feel free to express any other concerns you might have.
As a final statement: I know not every one of you will be on board with this idea, but I would hope that you would consider voting positively anyways, if only, because you know that this feature being added as a mutator (as-in, not in vanilla gameplay) would have no effect on you at all. If there was no Capture the Flag, and someone made a request, I would vote yes, because even if I don't care for it, it's my own choice not to play. So please, help support this idea in. Thank you.
~~~
Hi y'all, my name is Drako.
I've jumped ship over from Sauerbraten and Red Eclipse in search of a more lively community, and just a generally more modern-designed Arena game.
I have a suggestion to make. And yup, it's just as the title says. I would like to have wall-jumping included.
I searched the forum, and the topic of wall-jumping was only mentioned once in this topic: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php...alljumping
It was mentioned as the 4th listed suggestion. Though while not everyone cared for it, there was no general pushback against it. I believe that the idea was generally looked over, as most of the people decided that the OP just wanted to change the whole game to make it like other games.
But before you decide too quickly, allow me to explain my stance with a Q&A list of likely asked questions:
~~~
Q: I like the game as it is, and wall-jumping would have a drastic effect on gameplay. Why would I support something that would change the way I have to play?
A: A lot of you are likely game-mode purists (that is, like to keep things vanilla, or as they currently are), but that's why I would like to request this as a MUTATOR. I understand that no one wants their game changed in a way they don't like, which is why the mutator point is important.
~~~
Q: OK, but why should I care?
A: I like to play with the grappling hook. By show of hands, how many of you like it, too? <- Rhetorical
Point is, I know there are some of you out there that would jump in to say that you don't care for it. But, at the end of the day, does the grappling hook option simply existing actually affect you?
All in all, we're all just trying to come together to play a great game. I don't care much for the Vampire mutator, but, if you asked me to support it, I would say, "Well, why not?!" Who am I to decide how others want to have fun, especially when it has no affect on me?
~~~
Q: Fair enough, but aren't there other games that feature parkour and shooting?
A: So, the big one most people might mention is Red Eclipse. Well, first off, although Red Eclipse does advertise itself as an Arena-shooter featuring parkour, the actual gameplay is actually next to nothing like real life parkour. In fact, there's actually no wall jumping. There's something like it, which I call wall-climbing, but all that really is, is spamming the impulse (jump) and parkour (wall-run) button to go stright up a wall. Angled jumps and 180* wall-kicks are completely impossible.
~~~
Q: Why not make a feature request?
A: Thing is, the game runs on the aging Cube 2 engine, and there's a general consensus that the game is dying, as expressed here: http://redeclipse.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1043
Also expressed is that there's not a whole lot that can be done, due to there only being one developer, which is barely a developer. Quinton Reeves is a great guy, but his actual skills in developing are quite limited, having no other experiences, and no formal education. He states his limited abilities in post #5 of the above mentioned topic. Most of the features that were implemented were helped by a long-time friend that did most of the programming work. Unfortunately, unless someone else comes in to save the day, a request like that would go nowhere.
The original game that I wanted to make a feature request for was a Parkour-game called Celaria: http://www.celaria.com/
I actually did make a feature request on the forum, going as far as saying I would personally fund the feature into existence, as stated here: http://forum.celaria.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=90
However, the main developer stated back that he wanted to focus on just the parkour aspect of the game. However, there was also another issue -- Celaria is made using Game Maker Studio, which, is a game engine that is actually optimized for 2D games. The developer stated that adding in an Arena-Style shooting game-mode just wouldn't work well with the engine.
After having been playing Xonotic with my brother for a while, I noticed that some of the maps have a certain feel to them that I think would make them work well with an extra feature like wall-jumping, especially maps that have a nice ramp placed somewhere, but doesn't actually really help get up anywhere. Maps like Xoylent, Solarium, and Running Man come to mind (Others, too).
~~~
Q: So, you just want to make Xonotic just like Celaria?
A: Does the grappling hook feature make Xonotic like Spider-Man 2? Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJq9oBkQftU (Hello again, 240p. ;3)
The answer is, no, it doesn't. Don't laugh, but I actually tried. I downloaded a city map with the grappling hook mutator enabled, and trust me, it does NOT work well.
But, just in general, this sort of question is an over-simplification. It assumes that adding a similar element of a game would make the game just like it. Celaria is an all around parkour game, and features many more things than just wall-jumping -- such as rolling, sliding, and ledge hanging/climbing. Its focus is parkour, and it shows. However, all I'm asking for is a simple when-I-come-in-contact-with-a-wall-I-can-jump-off-it feature. This single feature won't make Xonotic like Celaria, and I don't want it to be. I just think this would be a nice enhancement to the way that one can move about the maps.
But, just to backtrack a bit, I DO want the wall-jump to work similarly to Celaria's method, though, which is probably best shown here from seconds 0:01-0:11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnlNGRXtDQ
Basically, when the player model comes in contact with a wall, pressing space causes the character to jump off that wall. The direction is decided by which way the mouse is facing. Note that looking up has no effect on the height of the jump post-walljump.
Feel free to watch the entire video, or even play the game. It's multitudes of fun all on its own.
However, I would definitely put less momentum behind the jump. Celaria, when played right, can make you feel like you're flying. I just want a simple walljump more reminiscent of Super Mario 64.
~~~
Q: Still, why should the developers go through the trouble? Couldn't you just use the Blaster/Rocket Launcher/Super-Weapon?
A: While it's true that the splash-damage weapons give another method of mobility, one might not always have these weapons. Plus, not every place can be reached by these weapons alone, particular places too high to rocket up to. The grappling hook, on the other hand, just makes things too easy. Wall-jumping would be an always accessible method of movement, given that the mutator is selected. As a bonus, wall jumping wouldn't cause damage like rocket-jumping and blaster jumping does.
Otherwise, my offer from the Celaria page stands here as well. I am, definitely, willing to fund this feature in, however which way I can, and would be more than happy to test any implemented features out to get them right.
~~~
TL;DR
So, I hope I answered most of the questions and concerns anyone might have here already (and if you didn't read it, I urge you to do so. However, there's a summary below).
Feel free to express any other concerns you might have.
As a final statement: I know not every one of you will be on board with this idea, but I would hope that you would consider voting positively anyways, if only, because you know that this feature being added as a mutator (as-in, not in vanilla gameplay) would have no effect on you at all. If there was no Capture the Flag, and someone made a request, I would vote yes, because even if I don't care for it, it's my own choice not to play. So please, help support this idea in. Thank you.
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