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My thoughts about Xonotic

#1
Heya all. I want to share my opinions about Xonotic, here, now.

I've been watching the developement of Xonotic since this project was established - for almost a year now. Because I'm not a developer, I've just watched when Nexuiz turns into Xonotic without making really big contribution (except Finnish translation, but that wasn't a big deal) and I've been more like "a casual user" of Xonotic. Just a normal guy who has opinions is this game good or bad. However, I have little experience about "serious" gaming (I've watched e-sport streams and I used play CoD2 with my friend as a clan, playing CB matches) so I also have an opinion in this category. Also I'm Linux + Windows user and I have experience on Linux gaming community because a few years ago I really wanted to get rid of Windows completely - without success because of games.

Let's cut the bullshit. Lemme start...

1. The atmosphere
Nexuiz used to be an "open-source alternative to Quake and UT". I didn't make this up, this was a common idea. Of course Nexuiz's gameplay was a bit different than Quake's and UT's (different weapons, different physics etc.) but the main game style and the whole atmosphere was close to Quake and UT. Characters were more or less brutal guys with bug guns which go bang and blood splatters all around the walls. However, when Xonotic was established and the artwork was decided, it was no more like that. The current atmosphere reminds me more Halo than Quake or UT. Characters aren't anymore big brutal guys with big ugly guns, they're more like shiny soldiers with über-technic weapons. Some may like this, some may not. How about me? I really do like. There have been so many "Quake-clones" with almost same atmosphere and gamestyle and therefore Xonotic really stands out. Just because of art direction and theme. At first I thought that this kind of "spacy" theme is for bad, but when I played git-version and 0.1 I actually found out that game is damn pretty and good-looking. Not too "sophisticated", but not too old-school brutal Quake-style.
Edit: The only thing which really screws the atmosphere, are stiff rigs while moving. It really do look stupid. Skeletal models ftw?

2. Open-source
Graphics. Level design. The entire game. Whoa. This game really fullfills the requirements of good planning. And when I remember that this game is completely done open-source and run by community, I really bow in front of you. Of course graphics and others aren't the best which are available nowadays (for example CryEngine 3, id Tech 5, Unreal Engine 3 etc.) but those are commercial things and people have invested millions on those products. How about Xonotic? And the quality? Fuck yeah. To be honest, many free games, but not open-source have way much less quality than Xonotic does. Especially open-source games - many open-source games have good technology but the game is usually boring and way too "nerdish". The main page is some kind of Wiki-page written by nerdlanguage which normal guy does not understand. Xonotic doesn't have this problem. It's free and open-source but at the same time it has a message "I'm fun to play and I'm not rubbish. Download me!" Normal people will play Xonotic because it's fun to play, not because it's technically better than other (commercial) version of the game or because they are rebel. Xonotic will be the benchmark of open-source gaming when 1.0 is officially released.

3. Still, way too much Quake?
Xonotic isn't Quake. Yes. But its origins are from Quake and the gaming style is similiar to it. As I said, Xonotic's atmosphere is more like Halo and therefore a good thing. But the gaming is still the same. To be honest, there is some kind of oversupply of the Quake-clones out there. Besides Quake-series and UT, there are for example Warsow, Alien Arena, Sauerbraten, Cube, Blood Frontier (or Red Eclipse, whatever), World of Padman etc... They all differ a bit from each other, but still, they are almost identical to play. The biggest problem of this kind of gaming is on Linux, because almost all of the FPS-games which are available on Linux are these kind of Quake-clones. Do Linux gamers want more Quake clones, will Xonotic be marked as a "just another Quake-clone" even along on Windows and OSX players? Therefore Xonotic really needs some great aspects, which really make Xonotic stand out the others. And not just the graphics and quality of the game - this game still needs something. I do not mean that Xonotic's gamestyle should be redone - I mean that it needs something more that makes Xonotic unique.

4. Casual VS. Hardcore
My FPS is capped to 333 and play with the right config-file on order to pwn. (Okay, do not take this seriously, I don't play like that.) On the other hand, some people might like to play Xonotic with big screen graphics maxed, just to have graphical satisfaction and pleasure of playing with friends. I'm glad that Xonotic have potential to both of these styles. Open-source makes possible that HC gamers really can tweak Xonotic for their needs and you guys are really working hard on getting perfect balance between weapons and physics. HC gamers appreciate that. I really do see potential on big e-sport community on Xonotic, because this game has everything that e-sport game needs. Except anticheat. However, this game is also "noob-friendly" with nice graphics, easy-to-use UI and simple game-idea (easy to play, hard to master). For example, Warsow is really aimed to e-sport gaming. Of course there are public servers, but HC gamers like Warsow more because of it's design - not the casual players. I really do hope that developement of Xonotic will remember both of these player types - HC gamers and casual gamers.

5. Marketing
When Xonotic was released, one of the main goals was to focus on marketing more than Nexuiz did. Where the fuck is this? There are several videos on Youtube etc. but not on the other media. You can't start marketing when the game is officially released and waiting for players - it has to start much more earlier. For example, Xonotic needs official teasers and so on, which makes people wait for this game. Not those "Hey, I'm Bob playing this game called Xonotic. It's awesum." Even though this game is still in alpha-stage, marketing must be started.

End of story.
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#2
(02-17-2011, 11:24 AM)Exitium Wrote: 5. Marketing
When Xonotic was released, one of the main goals was to focus on marketing more than Nexuiz did. Where the fuck is this? There are several videos on Youtube etc. but not on the other media. You can't start marketing when the game is officially released and waiting for players - it has to start much more earlier. For example, Xonotic needs official teasers and so on, which makes people wait for this game. Not those "Hey, I'm Bob playing this game called Xonotic. It's awesum." Even though this game is still in alpha-stage, marketing must be started.

End of story.

Excellent thread, and this ^^

We really need to get Xonotic out to more site's also, rather then predominantly Linux, which is find the for casual gamer's/geeks/player's around the world but I never see any news posted to big/major gaming site's so this needs to be addressed quickly.
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#3
Yep I agree, point 5 is damn important. Should be to hard to get some videos (trailers).
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#4
well written , ty

:^
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#5
(02-17-2011, 11:24 AM)Exitium Wrote: 3. Still, way too much Quake?
Xonotic isn't Quake. Yes. But its origins are from Quake and the gaming style is similiar to it. As I said, Xonotic's atmosphere is more like Halo and therefore a good thing. But the gaming is still the same. To be honest, there is some kind of oversupply of the Quake-clones out there. Besides Quake-series and UT, there are for example Warsow, Alien Arena, Sauerbraten, Cube, Blood Frontier (or Red Eclipse, whatever), World of Padman etc... They all differ a bit from each other, but still, they are almost identical to play. The biggest problem of this kind of gaming is on Linux, because almost all of the FPS-games which are available on Linux are these kind of Quake-clones. Do Linux gamers want more Quake clones, will Xonotic be marked as a "just another Quake-clone" even along on Windows and OSX players? Therefore Xonotic really needs some great aspects, which really make Xonotic stand out the others. And not just the graphics and quality of the game - this game still needs something. I do not mean that Xonotic's gamestyle should be redone - I mean that it needs something more that makes Xonotic unique.

Thanks for your thoughts, they correspond to mine. Especially the point "3. Still, way too much Quake?"
I discussed that related to the nexrun and xpm Modification for Nexuiz. But Fruitiex don't get my point of view. We all don't need another clone of the popular Quake. If people want to play Quake they will play Quake I,II,III or IV but there is no point to use a Clone of it. Best example is OpenArena, it lost nearly all good players with the release of Quakelive.

So Xonotic needs a real difference something unique.

Marketing?!
You're right. Its about time!
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#6
XPM and nexrun are just mods. You really need to know the background of what nexrun was all about before you go saying it is just pure copying.

The goal was to try and be able to play Q3 defrag maps with a different physics set, that was similar to nexuiz in that only forward gave most of the speed..basically what Xonotic's physics now are was the goal back then, but we didn't have the technical ability to do it, then fruitiex came and made nexrun a success..it is still different from defrag, but yeah anyway that's the story behind it.

Let's not start the stupid Quake clone bullshit, it's a load of nonsense since Xonotic plays so differently, stop this real unique stuff also, it always just ends up with bad things coming in.

Already have the laser, already have a different physics set, already have different weapons. That make's the game unique enough already. Nothing make's me rage more when people say it has to be completely radically different, take a look and you can see it's already unique so no more of this sillyness PLEASE. Taking the best aspects from other game's and modifying slightly or keeping..e.g, respawn times, health system etc doesn't make a game a Quake clone, it's tried and tested systems that work.
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#7
It's a Quake clone Tongue though interestingly it plays more like Unreal Tournament.
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#8
(02-18-2011, 02:06 PM)kojn^ Wrote: XPM and nexrun are just mods. You really need to know the background of what nexrun was all about before you go saying it is just pure copying.

I got my background knowledge from discussions with fruitiex and I remember his words as he said he wish Nexuiz/Xonotic would have cpm-like physics. He also wanted a weaponset similar to Quake. I remember all the discussions in which he want to abolish the secondary firemode of the weapons and so on.
Is it possible that I am a bit longer involved in the nexrun scene than you kojn? But I am not sure Tongue


Quote:The goal was to try and be able to play Q3 defrag maps with a different physics set, that was similar to nexuiz [...]

That was not all! We wanted to make a competive modification or gametype for more experienced players. With less weapons than normal Nexuiz had and the weapons should be more balanced. Alike CPMA for Quake 3 Arena.


Quote:Let's not start the stupid Quake clone bullshit, it's a load of nonsense since Xonotic plays so differently, stop this real unique stuff also, it always just ends up with bad things coming in.

Well, the current Preview of Xonotic is different from being a Quake-Clone. But why should we stop a discussion that point out in which direction the development should go or rather not go?


Exitium Wrote:Therefore Xonotic really needs some great aspects, which really make Xonotic stand out the others. And not just the graphics and quality of the game - this game still needs something. I do not mean that Xonotic's gamestyle should be redone - I mean that it needs something more that makes Xonotic unique.

I understand this sorrows. Think about the questions: "Why should I play Xonotic?" and "How can I convince others to play Xonotic of all games?. And I think it just does not suffice to collect the best from other FPS games.
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#9
(02-18-2011, 02:06 PM)kojn^ Wrote: XPM and nexrun are just mods. You really need to know the background of what nexrun was all about before you go saying it is just pure copying.

nexrun isnt a mod anymore. i dont who continued Revenant's work, but it has been adapted and modified(ok it doesnt use an own physics.cfg anymore). Now its playable as race and race cts. While XPM goes in the direction of a defrag mode.
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#10
(02-19-2011, 03:49 AM)RaptorFX Wrote: I got my background knowledge from discussions with fruitiex and I remember his words as he said he wish Nexuiz/Xonotic would have cpm-like physics. He also wanted a weaponset similar to Quake. I remember all the discussions in which he want to abolish the secondary firemode of the weapons and so on.
Is it possible that I am a bit longer involved in the nexrun scene than you kojn? But I am not sure Tongue

Highlu unlikely since I was one of the founder's of nexrun Wink
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#11
Excellent post Exitium, thanks for taking the time to wrote your view down. It makes the developers job more possible when ppl actually takes the time of day to provide real input (as opposed to ppl just crying yes! or no! over some isolated feature). Wrt to "Marketing", given we'r as 0.1 i would say its perhaps not proper to start marketing heavily yet - theres so much left to do. On the other hand foss projects work different then commercial titles here; more attention means more developers (hopefully), so perhaps it would be a good idea to do more pr/marketing stuff.

@nexrun/xpm ppl stop derailing the thread plz.
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#12
Cool post. After all there is one more guy sharing his ideas and thoughts with us Smile

Anyway... Im one of those guys who liked the big brutal playermodels with ugly guns more Confused
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#13
Thank you for replies.

(02-18-2011, 01:50 PM)RaptorFX Wrote: Thanks for your thoughts, they correspond to mine. Especially the point "3. Still, way too much Quake?"
I discussed that related to the nexrun and xpm Modification for Nexuiz. But Fruitiex don't get my point of view. We all don't need another clone of the popular Quake. If people want to play Quake they will play Quake I,II,III or IV but there is no point to use a Clone of it. Best example is OpenArena, it lost nearly all good players with the release of Quakelive.

So Xonotic needs a real difference something unique.

Marketing?!
You're right. Its about time!

Indeed. OpenArena is a good example. Besides, OpenArena is just an open-source and free alternative to Quake III - just easy to get (free download), maybe technically a bit better (ioquake3-engine) and GPL-geeks like it because of license. However, Quake III (and QuakeLive) has more players and better gaming attitude. And what happened?

(02-18-2011, 02:06 PM)kojn^ Wrote: Let's not start the stupid Quake clone bullshit, it's a load of nonsense since Xonotic plays so differently, stop this real unique stuff also, it always just ends up with bad things coming in.

Already have the laser, already have a different physics set, already have different weapons. That make's the game unique enough already. Nothing make's me rage more when people say it has to be completely radically different, take a look and you can see it's already unique so no more of this sillyness PLEASE. Taking the best aspects from other game's and modifying slightly or keeping..e.g, respawn times, health system etc doesn't make a game a Quake clone, it's tried and tested systems that work.

I said, that Xonotix gameplay should not be redone. And of course it's different from Quake and UT. But the main game aspect is the same. As a unique stuff, I mean laser-like things, but more of them. For example, there is that one topic out there about weapon balance and suggestion about those so called "super weapons" (fireball could be one of these + other new weapons) - these things make Xonotic unique. Note: that super-weapon thing was just an example.

(02-19-2011, 06:24 AM)tZork Wrote: Excellent post Exitium, thanks for taking the time to wrote your view down. It makes the developers job more possible when ppl actually takes the time of day to provide real input (as opposed to ppl just crying yes! or no! over some isolated feature). Wrt to "Marketing", given we'r as 0.1 i would say its perhaps not proper to start marketing heavily yet - theres so much left to do. On the other hand foss projects work different then commercial titles here; more attention means more developers (hopefully), so perhaps it would be a good idea to do more pr/marketing stuff.

@nexrun/xpm ppl stop derailing the thread plz.

Yeah, I get the point. But I sure hope that marketing is going to start in time. Besides, many games have "Coming Soon" or "Will be released Q4 2011" teasers without actual gameplay footage. Okay, they might be more commercial-stuff, but maybe Xonotic could make something almost similiar?
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#14
(02-19-2011, 04:30 AM)Cortez666 Wrote: While XPM goes in the direction of a defrag mode.

XPM = Xonotic 0.1beta defaults + CPMA Physics + fixes for eventual Mess ups done in future balances Wink
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