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Graphics: Xonotic VS Nexuiz [WARNING: OFFTOPIC]

#51
I just want to say that i looked for this in the game but I couldn't find it...

[Image: vOG41Mw]

Is it in some hidden area on Xoylent?

I'm gonna have to see more in order to do a proper comparison with Nexuiz.

For science.
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#52
Oh I am on this thread again.

Akari, the reason Deevad's post was received much more gracefully is because it is very constructive. Re-read your posts here and you'll find that really all you are saying is "this is ugly", "this doesn't fit at all", "this is eyecancer" and so on while bashing at everyone in this community at the same time.

The bars are horribly blurred interlaced rectangles. Font is eyecancer. Positions of the timer and scores are very awkward. Radar/minimap is a huge waste of space. Horribly stretched background of the scores panel. All those lines are copy-pasted from your posts. How's that constructive? Your line "I am also the only one to make a point in this thread." is unintentionally comical given the background.

Criticism is useful only if it is constructive. Deevad's criticism indeed is very constructive and therefore appreciated, while I really have a hard time to identify ANY added value from your posts. That you're all the time expressing your disrespect towards the Xonotic Community doesn't help, too. I don't even know where that comes from but maybe there's a history for that too, which on the other hand is - no matter how justified - for sure unrelated to the HUD design.

(05-11-2011, 02:14 AM)Akari Wrote: Another funny thing is that the devs actually did ask "What is wrong with this HUD?" (see line 210. But the whole thing is actually a nice read), and now when I'm the one to answer this question, you basically tell me to fuck off and that you don't give a damn about my opinion. Cute.

If you find THAT a nice read, then you should seriously reconsider your way of "making a point". Telling someone THIS IS SHIT OMG WHY DID YOU FUCK THIS UP while not at all being able to tell what actually is wrong even though politely asked by a responsible developer really doesn't help earning respect in any way.

* Halogene lifts his hat for Samual for even ANSWERING in this discussion
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#53
(05-11-2011, 02:14 AM)Akari Wrote:
(05-10-2011, 03:20 PM)Exitium Wrote: If you don't like remaking the "completely working game, which is going to the worse direction", don't play it or say something to improve it! Share the actual ideas, not just "I don't like it, I'm off".

Yep, I surely posted "I don't like it, I'm off" instead of a detailed explanation of exactly is wrong with the HUD, which is supposed to give you an idea on how to improve it. This is called criticism. But apparently it's not welcome here, so I'll just quit it.

Yes, you shared "what's wrong with HUD" afterwards. But you did it like "lol this sucks, mine's better" style. Criticism is always good, yes, but your negative and over-criticism against the HUD which has been widely accepted just made me point these things out. It's good that you have your own opinions, but your posts have "REMAKE IT NOW!" hue. I don't know if it was intented, but when I read your posts, I got feeling like that.

(05-11-2011, 02:14 AM)Akari Wrote:
(05-10-2011, 03:20 PM)Exitium Wrote: Akari, I really do hope you get this point: Most of us like the current HUD and that's why it has been chosen. If you don't like it, it cannot be changed because most people wouldn't like the changes you like. It's you vs. many others. Just saying "I don't like it, change it, it sucks, I'm right, you're wrong" doesn't help anything.

Again, you got it wrong. I didn't post this for the sake of "I'm right, you're wrong", I have tried to point out the flaws of current HUD for you to consider them and either tell me why they are not flaws, or accept that they are and fix them. Another funny thing is that the devs actually did ask "What is wrong with this HUD?" (see line 210. But the whole thing is actually a nice read), and now when I'm the one to answer this question, you basically tell me to fuck off and that you don't give a damn about my opinion. Cute.

I did not say "fuck off", even indirectly. You got me completely wrong. I'm just here to criticize your criticism. You pointed out flaws of the current HUD IN YOUR OPINION, but as I said earlier, HUD must be done in terms of everyone's will. While others said pros and cons about the current HUD, you didn't want to accept their opinions. That's why I'm writing this text atm. Or if you did, but you disagree with them, you didn't do it with criticism, just pointing how everything is crappy. If you really want to share the same ideas what are you thinking in these forums, think twice how to express them. Then others, epecially me in this thread, can avoid misunderstandings.

(05-11-2011, 02:14 AM)Akari Wrote:
(05-10-2011, 03:20 PM)Exitium Wrote: Deevad had good points and actual feedback, while Samual said his own thoughts and told the facts about being configureable etc.. That's how the things work. If there is some kind of actual good suggestion which others also like, then it's going to be applied to HUD. But if it's just your opinion and you have no-one who stands with you (or just minority), it cannot be done.

It might surprise you, but Deevad is my clanmate who wouldn't even register and post here if I didn't link him to this thread on our IRC channel. What he has put into his mockup was influenced by what I tried to say here and on the IRC, and I can bet you would disregard his opinion as well if he tried to explain himself in words instead of a picture.
[Image: 1.png]

He shared the ideas like "in my opinions, HUD can be improved this way..." - he did not express them like this "current HUD sucks". And yes, pictures really do help understanding. For example, I do have picturememory (or whatever is the English term) and therefore I can absorb information better from the pictures than from the plaiin text. Therefore books have also informative pictures, because some people really get more information from the pictures than plain text. Especially pictures help understanding while you're not native English speaker, like me. Please, don't try make joke with me about pictures or express that I'm dumb, because it's completely wrong in terms of what I just said.

Edit: Halogene said it.
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#54
(05-11-2011, 03:49 AM)Halogene Wrote: The bars are horribly blurred interlaced rectangles. Font is eyecancer. Positions of the timer and scores are very awkward. Radar/minimap is a huge waste of space. Horribly stretched background of the scores panel. All those lines are copy-pasted from your posts. How's that constructive?

>Font is eyecancer
I did not just say "Font is eyecancer". I've pointed out the shape is too thin, which at least implies I've suggested to make it a bit wider. Much like Deevad pointed out the HUD is too high and implied that it should be lowered.

>Positions of the timer and scores are very awkward
Why didn't you quote the second part of that sentence which says they are too off the top? That implies suggestion to raise them.

>Radar/minimap is a huge waste of space
Implies I suggested to shrink it in size and, considering that I mentioned the fact it gets covered by console notifications, moved elsewhere. Below the scores/timer should be a good place, if they are raised.

>Horribly stretched background of the scores
Wow, I thought this is obvious. Remake the background to make it fit the size, problem solved.

>The bars are horribly blurred interlaced rectangles
I wanted to expand on bars later. At the moment it looks like they are just drawn over the HUD and are not integrated into it in any way. How about shaping them after the HUD border and make them collide with it? That might even make the blur look less noticable.

How is that not constructive?

(05-11-2011, 03:49 AM)Halogene Wrote: Telling someone THIS IS SHIT OMG WHY DID YOU FUCK THIS UP while not at all being able to tell what actually is wrong

They haven't been very polite, but they did point out what exactly is in their opinion wrong with Xonotic. They mentioned movement, certain weapons, excessively big sized "lag clock", changes to the weapon priority lists to start with. But this is irrelevant.
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#55
(05-11-2011, 04:41 AM)Akari Wrote: How is that not constructive?

The way you express it. It's just rage, and you expect that others can analyze your rage without pointing anything back.
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#56
(05-11-2011, 04:47 AM)Exitium Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 04:41 AM)Akari Wrote: How is that not constructive?

The way you express it. It's just rage, and you expect that others can analyze your rage without pointing anything back.

Okay, I did not intend it this way. Please hilight all the rageous statements of my previous post so I can fix them.
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#57
(05-11-2011, 04:53 AM)Akari Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 04:47 AM)Exitium Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 04:41 AM)Akari Wrote: How is that not constructive?

The way you express it. It's just rage, and you expect that others can analyze your rage without pointing anything back.

Okay, I did not intend it this way. Please hilight all the rageous statements of my previous post so I can fix them.

Halogene did it earlier. And as I said "rage", I meant that over-criticism with negative words - "eyecancer", "waste of space", "horribly stretched background of the scores" etc.
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#58
s/eyecancer/not very visually appealing/
s/waste of space/a bit too excessive on screen space usage/
s/horribly/slightly/

amidoinitrite?
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#59
I have the feeling this is becoming more cooperative and constructive again. Thank you Akari for taking your time to put your criticism in more appropriate words and therefore for de-escalating the discussion. (edit: I wrote that already before your post above, so this isn't actually a reaction to your "translation" Smile)

I haven't personally noticed the stretched background of the scores, will have a look at that next time I run Xonotic.

The thin font is an improvement in my opinion as I feel it is easier to "blind it out" when concentrating on the things it obscures while still being clearly and easily readable. Of course it may not LOOK that good in your opinion, but in my opinion it anyway doesn't look any worse than the previous one. Actually I like it quite much. But again, that's a matter of taste.

The minimap being covered by console messages is a valid point, of course you can move it yourself but maybe it should indeed be moved elsewhere by default, as you suggested.

I don't mind the position of the scores and the time, but I wouldn't mind if they were raised a bit either. If the minimap would come to upper right corner then they would need to be raised or moved of course. Personally I always use "tab" to show scores when I am not within immediate action and don't ever look at the scores digit up there...

I am totally indifferent about the bars. But I think this is about personal taste only anyway.
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#60
(05-11-2011, 05:07 AM)Akari Wrote: s/eyecancer/not very visually appealing/
s/waste of space/a bit too excessive on screen space usage/
s/horribly/slightly/

amidoinitrite?

Yes. If you have expressed like that from the beginning, and added for example "in my opinion" sentence and continued it with "because", there would have never been this conversation about you style to express things and how that impacts to community or others, and we would have been discussing about improving HUD instead of this. That's criticism, your style was expressing your discontent with negative words.
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#61
Ok I think we got sorted that out. Let's continue with off topic HUD discussion instead of with off topic discussion style discussion. Tongue
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#62
(05-11-2011, 05:21 AM)Halogene Wrote: Ok I think we got sorted that out. Let's continue with off topic HUD discussion instead of with off topic discussion style discussion. Tongue

Yay! Anyhow, I made a new thread about the original topic. If someone is willing to discuss about the original idea of this thread, then post something on the new thread. Smile
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#63
(05-10-2011, 12:08 PM)Deevad Wrote: Hi,

My first post here. I wanted to react to the 1st screenshot. Old Nexuiz HUD need polishing - no doubt about it- but NOT a total revolution.
I think energies here are wasted to reinvent the wheel. Here under , a picture with some notes written over the first posted screenshots :

[Image: xonotichudcritissism.jpg]

So, In term of efficiency, old one respect more what I need when I play. I'm sure it's possible to refresh gfx of the old one with doing an eyecandy & glassy work without loosing the efficiency of the first. If you need help with mockup I can join on my free-time of course.

You do know that the HUD is entirely built upon a very customizable, in-game HUD editor. Enter it from player setup -> HUD editor. From here you can move/resize stuff around, and by editing the skin graphics you can create your own skin and then configure it even further (and a background, the "dock" for everything to for instance get rid of the free floating stuff you mentioned). These free floating panels (and also the dock image if you have one) will be stretched when aspect ratio changes, so you shouldn't have to worry much about aspect ratio.

Oh for the record, the first version of this default HUD skin by sev did feature a background, but people didn't like it... It did go up along the left/right edges iirc, so maybe they found it too obstructing.
Here's a random screenshot of it: [Image: 67ngh7bdok96ri5d8c6v_thumb.jpg]
(05-10-2011, 04:12 AM)Akari Wrote: I never cared about in-game graphics at all since I play on mostly lowest settings, but the HUD on the second screenshot is terrible. I don't like the nexuiz one too much either (the huge background panel especially), but this just blows. I'd rather play without the HUD than be forced to look at these fugly health/armor bars, fonts and retarded huge crosshairs.
exec hud_nexuiz.cfg
(05-10-2011, 05:43 AM)Akari Wrote: the font is eyecancer.

exec font-nimbussans1.cfg or font-dejavu.cfg
(05-10-2011, 05:43 AM)Akari Wrote: console notifications which it would get covered by will make it even less useful.

The goal is removing these console notifications.
Links to my: SoundCloud and bandcamp accounts
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#64
(05-11-2011, 05:12 AM)Halogene Wrote: I haven't personally noticed the stretched background of the scores, will have a look at that next time I run Xonotic.

The stretched background part was refered to the Nexuiz HUD config which I was told to execute, not the default one. Speaking of which. And a bit more on the Xonotic hud.

(05-11-2011, 05:12 AM)Halogene Wrote: I don't mind the position of the scores and the time, but I wouldn't mind if they were raised a bit either. If the minimap would come to upper right corner then they would need to be raised or moved of course. Personally I always use "tab" to show scores when I am not within immediate action and don't ever look at the scores digit up there...

I am totally indifferent about the bars. But I think this is about personal taste only anyway.

I do mind the position of scores and time because it looks somehow not natural to have them fade into the void, while the bottom panel and the radar fade into corners of the screen. Furthermore, it clearly wasn't designed with small resolutions in mind, on these the top gap is really a wast... erm, excessive usage of screen space. I feel the same way as you do about the scores panel, and that's why I also see no point in giving it a shiny border as if it was something urgent. If you are indifferent about the bars, I guess you shouldn't mind them change for the sake of integration.
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#65
(05-11-2011, 05:56 AM)Akari Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 05:12 AM)Halogene Wrote: I haven't personally noticed the stretched background of the scores, will have a look at that next time I run Xonotic.

The stretched background part was refered to the Nexuiz HUD config which I was told to execute, not the default one. Speaking of which. And a bit more on the Xonotic hud.
Feel free to fix. I whipped up that Nexuiz config in a couple minutes as a proof of concept that the old HUD could still be replicated with ok accuracy.

That mod panel on the second shot is split into two equally sized sections, race uses the left for server/client best records and right one for the medals. This is so that it can easily use a vertical layout without the coder of the mod having to worry about that.

Well one good argument for not hiding the radar would be that mappers then /have/ to create radarmaps. Map's fault in this case for not having a radarmap, any map compiled for Xonotic will with default compile settings have a radarmap generated for it.

That yellow bar is the fuel bar. Why that server even has fuel is beyond me (probably my own server now that I think about it, haha). I dislike the fuel bar and would myself like to see it gone from the game.
Links to my: SoundCloud and bandcamp accounts
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#66
(05-11-2011, 05:57 AM)FruitieX Wrote:
(05-10-2011, 07:17 AM)Akari Wrote: I am also the only one to make a point in this thread. All of my concerns have been responded with either "no, you're wrong, I like the HUD", "you can customize it"

Indeed. YOU can customize it, YOU can save your awesome HUD into a config and submit it. It's a 10 second job to replace the default HUD config with your new awesome one.

Uhm, FruitieX, I thought we had sorted out the discussion style discussion? There's no reason to dig out earlier comments from Akari now that he actually started to post constructive criticism.

Back to the original off topic I have to say that I actually agree with most of the things Akari pointed out in the screens he posted. Though I don't think this is super-urgent, the comments show where is room for improvement.
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#67
what a nice athmosphere again.
try to speak in another tone with each other ,its just embarrassing how this thread turns into a little bitchfight.
seriously.
i know akari and hes not a flamer or sth like that. he has some issues and pointed em out, maybe u should try to react wisely because if not its always ending in a fight between xonotic lovers and captious critic.

i know akari missunderstood sth.
maybe he didnt understand he can make his own perfect hud and bars, but im not sure about it.
just try to explain and u ll see its not becoming that bad.

"and yeah im out" , more of those sentences pls. sounds like more drama and overreaction when those guys rejoin again.

btw. when i played xonotic the last time, i had no problem with the hud and bars, normally its not that important for me. it was different but hey i was trying to learn xonotic and feel the game so i dont care about huds and graphicsBlush

and xonotic has a better graphic, we all know it.
first picture was a little bit weird because of soylent and xoylent because of the thread title, but i think we all know its normally better than "nexuiz" (wrong wordWink)by far

EDITAngryhalogene: good post thx.
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#68
Well I'm sorry. I just can't stand this kind of pointless bashing. If that's all they do here, then they might as well GTFO.

No point taking this back on-topic BTW, new thread here: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=1818

Edit: K, censored some of my posts for you C.Brutail Smile
Reading through everything would have been a good idea in this case, but usually I start by replying to stuff in the order it's posted in duh Smile
Now there was just too much crap, didn't care about reading all of it (just snippets, which felt like more and more of this "xonotic hating" attitude)

p.s. Wonder if the shitstorm would be as huge if the game would be called "Nexuiz 2.6" instead, hope these "haters" (not just on this forum) are aware of the fact that Nexuiz 2.6 was going to be a major overhaul as well (havoc mode! wooo)
Links to my: SoundCloud and bandcamp accounts
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#69
Ok, when I get home, I'll read it... and I might take out the trash too...
[Image: 561.png]
"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
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#70
(05-11-2011, 08:01 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: Ok, when I get home, I'll read it... and I might take out the trash too...

Actually there's not too much trash in it, don't worry. I think we got it all sorted out and there's no need any more to discuss discussion styles as I mentioned several times now already.
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#71
(05-11-2011, 10:36 AM)Halogene Wrote: Actually there's not too much trash in it, don't worry. I think we got it all sorted out and there's no need any more to discuss discussion styles as I mentioned several times now already.

yeah lets move on and ignore people who are obviously in rage modus.
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#72
Hello people that hate Xonotic, if you are still reading this thread, please consider this: Nexuiz is at version 2.5.2, Xonotic is at... barely past 0.1?

Nexuiz has been in development for what, 4+ years until it got to where it was when development stopped?

Thank you.

EDIT: oh, actually nexuiz development started in 2003 according to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o8kx0BqwfQ
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#73
i was writing a lot of stuff because nifrek made me really angry, but in the end i knew it makes no sense to say really stupid things.

but for the story. ur the real hater nifrek. nobody hates xonotic , its just paranoid because people were criticising a lot of things earlier.

even people who didnt play nexuiz told me they didnt like xonotic, but did they hate xonotic? no!? why should they hate xonotic?
only a few people around u think there are big haters trying to destroy xonotic with threads like this... serious?

i care about this project and i know a lot of people still reading the forum and waiting for more progress.

btw ur argument with 0.1 stage is old. its already recorded and now we re waiting for the next version.
and it doesnt mean nobody can criticise sth.
if u think critic = hate ur just ignorant.

iis xonotic hated in america or whats ur problem?
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#74
Ok, I've opened the thread again, as I promised.
I hope, the conversation can continue in a civilised way again.
[Image: 561.png]
"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
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