[SUGGESTION] Balance Chart ...

for the record ... Samual's "no" post was actually from the irc ...

He pretty much said "let me handle it"



so ... I guess I'll wait for that to happen ...
then complain ...
:3

in the mean time ... if anyone wants me to turn their balance idea into a pretty chart ... just ask ...

irc record ...


(and as usual I sound like an idiot on irc ... I say stupid things when i'm forced to think fast)

<hutty> Samual: besides the lack of a combined shotgun/laser .... what do you think of this balance chart ... http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=3672
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<Samual> No
<asyyy> well if you use that ammo system all maps will be broken
<asyyy> qua balance
<asyyy> there just wont be enough ammo on many duel maps for the blue/purple weapons
<hutty> there wont?
<asyyy> if you split it up
<asyyy> (the cells)
<asyyy> then you only got 50% of the ammo :x
<Samual> People please, just let me handle it
<Samual> Unless you actually want to contribute code for it
<Samual> which, you don't
<asyyy> well
<Samual> so you just annoy me when I already have a plan
<hutty> ... well ...
<asyyy> we have to balance the maps
<asyyy> which takes more time
<asyyy> but i dont mind
<Samual> I can balance the maps, I designed an algorithym for doing it
<asyyy> the current ammo system is a mess anyway
<Samual> algorithm*
<asyyy> weapon A takes 4 ammo, weapon B takes 6 ammo, weapon B secondary takes 3 ammo
<asyyy> etc
<asyyy> what a mess
<hutty> yeah ......
<milkflow> yay for Samual
<hutty> welp ... it was an attempt ...

^I do not agree with that mindset at all. We need one main balance set, that:
-makes at least core weapons actually balanced (not OP or UP) and not redundant with one another.
-has sensible ammo distribution.

When at least most people agree there is a problem with current one, odds are, there indeed is a problem with current one and it may be made better. What do you propose instead? That everyone fixes it on their own how they see fit, creating myriad of different sets on myriad of different servers, leaving newbies utterly confused?

Yes, that is what I propose.

There are few newbies. Variety is the spice of life. I think people are smart enough to know what's going on when they choose a different server and notice that the weapons behave differently, they will probably be-able to even draw on their previous experience in ET, Unreal, every other modifiable game and figure out that the settings are different on the different server.

Funny how people wish to protect "newbies" the way they imagine themselves protecting children.

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This is a balance thread.

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LOL at "attempt" meaning "annoy someone again". I think "attempt" should only mean "tried to code it, didn't work".
* HellYeah wishes his attempts could be counted as "work" and sometimes be "successful"

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THis is a balance thread.

^
^




no ... the newbies in general will get confused and not be able to figure things out ...

especially with a game like xonotic that has not tutorial or instruction manual

and yes ... we do have a lot of newbs around ... ... including you :3





back in the nexuiz days it took me forever to learn that the MG in ctf mode was weaker than the MG in DM mode ... it confused me ...

having millions of different balances confuses people too ... btw ... thats what xonotic 0.1 was ... Everyone had their own balance idea ... and they were all tested out to see which one was best ...

(although being the newb I was ... the only difference I could tell between the balances was the lightning electro frutiex's balance had ... )

Now that we finally have a solid balance that works ... we need a weapon/ammo system that is not a strange mess ...

..........

im not saying that variety is a bad thing ... its too much of it that causes trouble ...

Hmm the ET servers have tons of variety and have had tons of players forever. Xonotic has little variety and has few players. You just said variety is a bad thing: "its too much of it that causes trouble". Seems like xonotic is a religion to some of you. Arguing over the most minute details, trying to make your sect/balance.cfg the default. It's really easy to just roll your own. You can even make it the default for you by placing it in autoexec/mybalance.cfg . It never took me long to figure out what guns do on particular ET servers, you kinda press the mouse buttons and find out. Xonotic is not a very complicated game, I really don't think "newbies" are as retarded as you make them out to be, but imagining humans to be retarded supports your balance sect argument so whatever.

Facepalm for a newbie that gave you the feature you wanted?

That's simply offensive. Facepalm = This person is sooooo dumb. For what? Saying newbies aren't as stupid as you claim they are, and don't need to be coddled, and variety is good, and you should just implement what you want on your copy? That's what a retarded man would say? Take a stab at implementing what you want, once you learn how to do it easily you'll feel less anxiety as you can always tailor and change code to your wishes.

especially with a game like xonotic that has not tutorial or instruction manual

we should fix that as well...............

Wait... the topic of this thread was Balance Chart and some people claimed it wasn't a balance thread?

The attempt here - as with other or real balance threads - is to get a mutual consensus on what would be good to have as default settings. Unfortunately, this has proven almost impossible which is why threads like these seem to be only visited by people who have next to no control over the outcome. Which make them kind of pointless, but that is another discussion and goes to the core of the project which I do not want to mess up.

I propose we drop this deeper discussion.

HellYeah: if Xonotic was designed to be a sandbox for each and every user to play in, then your opinion would be the way to go. Like you, I would probably enjoy that even more than a more consistent approach to the game. I mean, compare our maps, they do not differ that much on the wacky ideas. However, it is designed to become the next best thing in online (semi-)competitive gaming and that needs a certain level of consistency. I mean, what do you suggest, not having defaults at all? Only an insane amount of sliders and checkboxes for each and every setting affecting gameplay, that a first time user needs to tweak before his first game?

And even then: every server admin - as you should know by now HellYeah - is free to edit the game to their liking. You only need to go round the server list in Xonotic to notice that people are already doing that.

Your breath of fresh air has started smelling quite badly already, but you might avoid the sewer by moving back a bit. Just saying.

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Also hutty, could you please just drop those images from your posts in the regular/serious forums? Tah.

Actually, I think that the current system is not confusing. You should be really handicapped to get confused with it. Maybee it lacks symmetrie, with explasives and cells dominating, but...

The attempt here - as with other or real balance threads - is to get a mutual consensus on what would be good to have as default settings. Unfortunately, this has proven almost impossible which is why threads like these seem to be only visited by people who have next to no control over the outcome. Which make them kind of pointless, but that is another discussion and goes to the core of the project which I do not want to mess up.

^^^

That ... is a great explanation ...

... and the robot hits the nail on the head once again!

Yes. Leave it to me, I know what i'm doing.