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Unjust ban on the only active DM server, what can be done?

#1
Is there something I can do after being banned from the only active vanilla DM server ?
There is a certain DM server ( 89.163.249.195:26001 ) that is somehow active almost 24/7, and looks like majority of xonotic community is just sticking to it (most other servers are dead empty), and somehow this server has absolute mess of admin that brags how he 'can beat anyone on any map' and when proven otherwise just permabans them by IP.
So, yeah, I'm permabanned on the only active DM server, effectively I'm permabanned from whole game (because I only like vanilla DM and instagib DM (but barely anyone plays it)), what am I supposed to do? Pick other game or? Should server admins conform to some code of conduct to be able to host server and have it listed in server browser, or nobody cares at all?
His nick is like 'CUPATRU' with colors and stuff, see this screenshot:
 [Image: image.png] 

after this chat we actually played finalrage map, and once I was 1 frag from winning he permabanned me, I uploaded full video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tYRwFkf24 .
It feels very wrong for one person to decide who can play xonotic and who can't, and It's wrong xonotic community is sitting on his server not even realising what he is doing to those who dare to win.
It's not even first ban, I have ban on that server on 3 different IPs by now, at least 2 of 3 times I've seen this 'Cupatru' playing right before ban. He probably banned a lot of people by now and others can't even see it (I guess he only keeps newbie players so that he can feel strong and skillful).
Maybe this server just needs to go somehow? Idk, revoke key? Remove his server from server list so that people would move to other servers with decent admins?
Why is he allowed to do it? He is actively ruining xonotic community by banning good players (I'm not even that good, just better than him and it's not allowed), and then good players have no servers to play on and leave to other games.
What can I or we actually do about it?
TY
p.s. I'm a bit new here, if I chose wrong category please move this thread where appropriate
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#2
Servers are privately owned so yeah.
I think one thing you can do is locate your userdata and if you dont care about your stats delete the key_0 files and reconnect your router for a new ip. Then rejoin.
Was also banned from this server but no more is that the case. (I think it'S also to maintain a noob friendly space beccause seeing a server where one player wins ahead by far makes the game tedious for noobs and they quit. So try not crush noobs but rather let anyone have a fun time if you're that good.)
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#3
Normally I would agree this can be considered 'noob-friendly server', but apparently this 'CUPATRU' is okay with himself owning noobs 24/7, but others are not allowed to do it. Also I'm amazed on how popular this server is, it doesn't even have name (called default 'Xonotic 8.2.0 or something'), how did they get so big playerbase? Why are people staying there? There's literally nothing special except for no lags.
Also I sometimes check who's playing and I see some non-noob players too, idk. Maybe they are just sneaky or lucky. In any case, this server is pure evil and destructive to community. Proper noob server would have 'Newbie Server' in name and adequate admins that at least don't grind noobs themselves for no reason (or to farm stats).
I wish I had infinite IPs to connect from, but alas. Unless I use Tor but I have the feeling this won't be very playable.
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#4
cupatru is not an admin anywhere. and if you were banned from a "Xonotic 0.8.2 Server" its because of a similar reason to this: https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.ph...5#pid87375. also take note of the single spectator. these are fake players the admin has sitting in his server at all time.
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#5
I didnt ban anyone. The person there appears to be impersonating me.... not sure what to do, might just change nick for a while
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#6
this is also possible. i have joined before where someone impersonated my nick. they also might use similar color schemes or just switch a few letters around. my friend is sitting_duck. someone was there one time with the name ditting_suck
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#7
(06-15-2021, 05:29 PM)Cupatru Wrote: I didnt ban anyone. The person there appears to be impersonating me.... not sure what to do, might just change nick for a while

Hm, was that chat on screenshot also not yours and not you on video? Yes it's just too easy to fake names in xonotic.

While I don't have direct proof Cupatru was the one who banned me, the chain of events (that chat -> match on finalrage -> ban one frag before I won) kinda suggests that.
Hm, also that time I was about to win my first game that day (unless there is some automatic tracking of wins?) and ban didn't even let me take that win, also that 'CUPATRU' wasn't banned despite being just 1 frag behind me (so, effectively, he won that way). SUSPICIOUS. Or maybe admin there is hallucinating and randomly sees cheats on random people? Who knows. I'd love to have a word with him anyway.
I don't consider myself some extremely perfect progamer to deserve being banned on that server, I'm not complete noob but so aren't players who play there. It's like it's something personal.
I'm also seeing numerous people of similar skill to me playing there without issues nearly every day.
Anyway, admin of that 'noob-friendly' server should put 'Newbie Server' into server name, banning innocents for no reason without any explanation is just rude.
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#8
(06-16-2021, 02:19 AM)nj Wrote:
(06-15-2021, 05:29 PM)Cupatru Wrote: I didnt ban anyone. The person there appears to be impersonating me.... not sure what to do, might just change nick for a while

Hm, was that chat on screenshot also not yours and not you on video? Yes it's just too easy to fake names in xonotic.

While I don't have direct proof Cupatru was the one who banned me, the chain of events (that chat -> match on finalrage -> ban one frag before I won) kinda suggests that.
Hm, also that time I was about to win my first game that day (unless there is some automatic tracking of wins?) and ban didn't even let me take that win, also that 'CUPATRU' wasn't banned despite being just 1 frag behind me (so, effectively, he won that way). SUSPICIOUS. Or maybe admin there is hallucinating and randomly sees cheats on random people? Who knows. I'd love to have a word with him anyway.
I don't consider myself some extremely perfect progamer to deserve being banned on that server, I'm not complete noob but so aren't players who play there. It's like it's something personal.
I'm also seeing numerous people of similar skill to me playing there without issues nearly every day.
Anyway, admin of that 'noob-friendly' server should put 'Newbie Server' into server name, banning innocents for no reason without any explanation is just rude.
Yeah, none of it was me. I don't think I've ever played on that server.
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#9
Are you sure the server still exists? I can't connect to that IP.  Nothing happens when i triy.
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#10
(06-16-2021, 03:43 PM)NoClue Wrote: Are you sure the server still exists? I can't connect to that IP.  Nothing happens when i triy.

Yes it exists and is the most active DM server.
I see it in server browser with players playing, then if I try to connect I get 'Server disconnected' in console and back to main menu, that's how ban looks like (I know because I was able to connect via different IP until it was banned aswell).
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#11
There was a similar thread a couple of days ago, as i said there, i am banned there for about 7 or 8 years now, it is a noob server and everyone who wins all the games while playing on that server gets banned.
Eris servers are populated almost all the time, and sometimes there are DM games, game mode is votable so you can try playing there. Though most games played there are CA.
erebus minstanex erebus Angel
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#12
Today I noticed my ban expired, I was happy I was able to play a bit again,  but, guess what, banned again after 3 games that I won (was banned in the middle of fourth so not automatic, some creep actually monitors it and prevents noobs from getting harmed as if it's some fucking 'happy farm' kind of game).
Fun stuff: I found yet another server with same default name (and IP 85.214.168.189:26000), but I couldn't even finish first game (banned at score like 12-0), wow. Damn.
So Xonotic is basically noob-only game? All other DM servers are dead as fuck. Wow. Amazing. I have nowhere to play and I'm not even that good, just average FPS player.
Thoughts?
Maybe there should be some centralized control over 'anal dictatorship' kind of servers or something? Something like revoking keys or blacklisting? Pushing them the fuck out from server browser? Creating 'fucked up servers' category etc?
Why are some sorry pathetic losers allowed to decide the fate of Xonotic community?

> Eris servers are populated almost all the time
yep, with CA. DM there is very rare, even when there are 2 or 3 people they vote for CA anyway (wtf?). CA is basically counterstrike with lasers, I didn't sign up for this.
I know I can make my own DM server but nobody will play there, it's like all Xonotic players are divided between: 1) noobs 2) counterstrike with lasers fans 3) those long banned and gone
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#13
This is how my server browser looks 90% of time:
[Image: image.png]

First there is that always-full overcrowded CA server.
Then there are 2 very active DM servers, I'm banned on both now.
And everything else is CTF, bad ping and empty servers.

How am I supposed to play DM?
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#14
You are in control of which servers become populated. One simply has to join a server with preferences they enjoy and others will come. These servers are only popular because someone is choosing to play there.

As for the politics of the servers; there is not much that can be done if the admins are not explicitly breaking any rules, they are free to decide who is allowed to play on their server.
[Image: 230.png]
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#15
Quote: One simply has to join a server with preferences they enjoy and others will come

As I said, I'm trying that sometimes and usually have to wait for hours for somebody to join for 5 minutes.
Because they just join more crowded servers (the ones I'm banned at) and enjoy. And those banned there too usually just leave Xonotic, something I have urge to do aswell by now, just looking for any solutions at all before giving up. Maybe I'll just buy some pool of 50 IPs and cocksucker admins can go fuck themselves.

Quote:they are free to decide who is allowed to play on their server.
Yes but by that they are shaping Xonotic community in bad way - effectively making it noob-only game where any average or good player gets banned shortly and leaves. It wasn't that bad when one server did this, but now there's two so it's A TREND.
I'd hate to see Xonotic becoming noob-only game, it has so much potential that gets crushed by several power-hungry psychos.
Developers should really think about future of Xonotic at this point. Is it really fair that future is decided by random losers that have just enough iq to launch a server (not enough iq to change server name from default tho)? Giving out power randomly is not the best solution, usually it's a terrible one, only those who can manage power responsibly should receive it.

Quote:there is not much that can be done
Technically there is. Server browser comes from centralized source, and there are specific per-servers keys involved as far as I know. Ban-a-lot servers can be deemed abusive and removed from server browser, or AT LEAST have some exclamation mark on them? Or moved to some hidden category? So that other servers will have ANY chance at all at getting players?

Quote: if the admins are not explicitly breaking any rules
So 'banning innocents for no reason' is not in rules? Maybe it should be added? Maybe there should be specific instructions on how to host a 'newbie server', first of all - by putting NEWBIE SERVER In name? Separate category? Something like that?
Right now nobody has any clue about playing on 'newbie server', about people getting banned left and right around them for no reason (they only see 'player disconnected', not even ban message), so those banned people (average and above average players) are ALL ALONE and leave Xonotic and  O N L Y   N O O B S   S T A Y .
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#16
(06-28-2021, 08:37 PM)Mario Wrote: You are in control of which servers become populated. One simply has to join a server with preferences they enjoy and others will come. These servers are only popular because someone is choosing to play there.

This server was banned several times in the past for faking activity, i.e. one or more non-human clients remain connected as spectator waiting for players. By doing this regularly, it has gained enough popularity to be the only active DM server. And it looks like this behaviour is still going on, so "someone is choosing to play there" is probably the server admin in the first place.

(06-28-2021, 08:37 PM)Mario Wrote: As for the politics of the servers; there is not much that can be done if the admins are not explicitly breaking any rules, they are free to decide who is allowed to play on their server.

The problem here is that this server doesn't state its rules: in the server name or at least in the MOTD there should be something like "skilled players aren't welcome" or "only for newbies". Also there should be a warning or at least a kick / ban reason given to the players. Not doing it causes frustration to players who wish to join it, they see some DM matches in progress but have no clue why they can no longer participate in it. So in this sense, in addition to the fake activity, the admin is "breaking the rules".
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#17
Quote:And it looks like this behaviour is still going on, so "someone is choosing to play there" is probably the server admin in the first place.
I don't think so, unless admin is able to physically play on several PCs against himself. It's not like people hanging in spectators, they are actually playing and many I also meet on other servers sometimes. But that's some scummy tactic to kickstart it and I'm not even surprised.

I agree to remainder of post, hopefully something will be done.
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#18
(06-29-2021, 08:13 AM)terencehill Wrote: The problem here is that this server doesn't state its rules

To clarify on this note, the servers do not break any rules that warrant removal from the server list (assuming they are no longer faking activity). It would be a very tender political issue to begin shutting down servers that "frustrate players" or ban players without warning, as that does not draw a clear line as to what's acceptable. Not to mention the technicalities that are best not discussed here.
The rules and what makes a server worthy of removal from the list are somewhat vague at this stage, but that is something deserving of its own thread or discussion among the development team.


In my experience, there has been one thing consistent throughout the years; if you play on a server, others will join you in time. I'm sorry to hear you haven't shared that experience, however it is still the players who choose where they play, and there's not much that can or should be done about that.

Moving forward, I'd like to suggest creating some guidelines that server administrators must follow for their server to remain in the list, to be enforced when cases like this thread emerge.
[Image: 230.png]
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#19
Quote:It would be a very tender political issue to begin shutting down servers that "frustrate players" or ban players without warning, as that does not draw a clear line as to what's acceptable
Well, there can be less radical solutions.

First of all, would be nice if banning somebody would result in public 'Player xxxxxxxx was banned (reason: .....)' message that everyone on server would see, then they will at least KNOW that people get banned left and right (right now they have no clue, thinking people just disconnect). Maybe some of them will be less eager to join that server, seeing there are dozens of people (all good players) banned every week? I would be. Maybe some will leave server after seeing their friends banned too. Right now bans are completely secret. Also 'ban reason' can be made mandatory so that admin MUST specify it with every ban, and if he writes random characters into it player can then report this ban to some centralized place and will result in penalties for server (so basically "ban without specifying reason" can be forbidden in server browser rules).

Secondly, would be nice if server bans would be made public and, for example, can be viewed in 'Info...' in server browser? No need to mention specific players, but some short line like "Active bans: 5464564", that will also make people AWARE of what's going on and maybe they will pick other servers or at least be suspicious. Also every ban should be broadcasted to centralized location (such as where server browser is hosted) and added to statistics (along with ban reason), so servers that ban left and right will get 'disruptive' flag that will show as visual indicator in server browser aswell.

Thirdly, some kind of 'reputation score' can be kept per server and also be shown in server browser (and maybe influence list order aswell), for example it can start with 0.0 and then influenced by things like average activity and number of bans (so very active server with few bans will be ok, inactive server with lots of bans will go into negative, and those two mentioned in this thread would stay a bit below zero too), it will be just visual indicator but will give clues to players that something is not right. Faking reputation with fake activity will be possible, but it will be against server browser rules as is faking activity now.

Lastly, 'player skill' category can be added into server browser and servers MUST pick one or several (for example, "Beginner", "Experienced", "Average,Experienced", "Pro", "Any") when listing, then Pro players will pick different servers and avoid newbie-focused ones.

Quote:Moving forward, I'd like to suggest creating some guidelines that server administrators must follow for their server to remain in the list, to be enforced when cases like this thread emerge.
The most effective ones would be:
1) forbid bans without specifying reason or with unreasonable reason (random characters as reason, "bye", "gtfo" etc)
2) every server will have to have rules that will list what can result in ban. rules will need to be seen by any player joining. if server has no rules - he is not allowed to ban
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#20
(06-30-2021, 05:39 AM)nj Wrote: The most effective ones would be:
1) forbid bans without specifying reason or with unreasonable reason (random characters as reason, "bye", "gtfo" etc)
2) every server will have to have rules that will list what can result in ban. rules will need to be seen by any player joining. if server has no rules - he is not allowed to ban
 
 (1) is not enforcable

 (2) is not enforcable

 (3) he who pays for the server determines what the software does and how much time he spends on admin

Really the only thing that could be done is dropping it from the server list but I'd strongly advise against this.  This server with autoban is important for noobs who have no stock in votable weirdmodes like ca or caffeine fueled insta. Really a lot of more weak or new players play there and whenever a strong player dominates most just disconnect after a few 30 to 5 scores.

Just add a few good servers to the fav list and play there and ignore the rest. Most action happens during the EU evening from 8pm-10pm I think. If you lurk on a good server early people will join you. The one server you're complaining about is far from nice anyway, it lags like hell when enough players join.
[Image: badge]
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#21
Quote:Really a lot of more weak or new players play there and whenever a strong player dominates most just disconnect after a few 30 to 5 scores.
The weak disconnect, the strong learn.
Quote:Just add a few good servers to the fav list
Yeah, no active DM servers (and especially iDM which is my fav gamemode) to add. That's the problem.
Quote:If you lurk on a good server early people will join you.
I tried that and it happened very rarely.
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#22
Please reconsider enforcing stronger rules about this for the good of the game and its players.
Securing player count with fake players and mass banning regular players with no explanation, no warning, nothing in MOTD and finally no justified reason is not good for the health of the playerbase.
Also, the admin conveniently does nothing against players who insult in game, i got countless insults, baseless hack-usations(nothing warranting a ban) and yet the admin only intervenes when someone is better than him.(which considering the recent skyrise of complaints, is many players)
There is also the paradox that if you ban regulars over time, you'll end up with only clueless newbs who quit because they get destroyed and one or two unhappy veterans who get banned again and again instead of 5 or 6 good players who enjoy fragging each other while newbs feel less bad because they don't get killed again and again by that ONE guy. I think it's a lose-lose situation for everyone.
Everytime this highly dishonorable person bans people like me, we often only play again weeks or months after because of the feeling of rejection. Wouldn't you want the game's most active players to not play less because of toxic behavior like this? i think it's quite possible the feeling of rejection was the reason some people quit, potentially forever.
I don't even play that well, any duel conoisseur who has good map knowledge and good keybindings could BTFO or at least fight well against most of the people who got banned in this server in a duel, me included.

I implore anyone who can do something direct to end this madness to consider doing it, it's killing enjoyment of the game for many people, me included. A serverlist ban would be the most poetic way of going with it and the one that would also bring greatest satisfaction for me and others(or so i think at least). But it could be something less extreme but still bad for the toxic admin(and good for us) such as demotion in a bad server playlist if that is possible.

Thank you for listening.

ps: When provocated by bypassing his ban to tell him that what he's doing isn't good, his answers get avoidant, the admin appears to be enjoying making people feel bad while impersonating innocent people, it's always unclear who is the admin and he seems to know and enjoy that. He's doing this abusive ban thing since years, but it seems to be very recent that people go out and speak against it possibly in light of a rise of unfair ban frequency, this thread in fact pushed me to create a forum account.
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#23
(06-30-2021, 03:51 PM)R+e^i Wrote: Really the only thing that could be done is dropping it from the server list but I'd strongly advise against this.  This server with autoban is important for noobs who have no stock in votable weirdmodes like ca or caffeine fueled insta. Really a lot of more weak or new players play there and whenever a strong player dominates most just disconnect after a few 30 to 5 scores.

Tell the server admin that he must add "Beginner" to the server name, or else the server will be dropped from the server list.

There is nothing wrong with a beginner server that bans good players, the problem is doing so without making it clear that it's a beginner server, so that players who would prefer a server that doesn't ban good players can play elsewhere, and that people who get banned have an idea why.
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#24
Today I was playing on this server, and I was targeting a player named "|n|" because he was scoring the highest and I wanted to win. After playing on revdm3, where I play blaster only and made him fall of the map many times, I got permanently banned from this server (by player ID) as well.


I was told in Discord that the server owner is known to also use the names of other players, so that he can't be identified properly.


This guy is just humiliating himself with rage bans and impersonating others, it is totally hilarious.
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#25
It's generally better to avoid most community interaction in this game.
Also @Ballerburg9005 i recently tried your server. I kinda got it populated pretty fast. However the server has some kind of issues. Whenever a new player joins everyone would have huge Packetloss for a second or two. Maybe you can check it out.
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