[SUGGESTION] Community organization

Hi all,
for those who weren't in irc yesterday evening i will summarized what we spoke about. Some of you users, mainly the one in eu i know and have played with me in the past, already know the problems i had with italian community management, a few trolls ruining the forum and so on, trolls that have bought the www.xonotic.it domain before we can get our hands on it, i will not tell the whole tale to avoid futile discussion on it, main problem is: WE WANT TO CREATE SUBCOMMUNITIES AS ITALIAN ONE, GERMAN ONE, WHICH WILL BE OFFICIALIZED BY MAIN SITE.

In order to work on it me and Dokujisan will start planning a restyling with -Z-'s benediction. It will be necessaire to decide the management of each subcommunity and maybe create a sort of senate of moderators who will refere to international xonotic group for tourney's and similar.

Any idea is welcome, anyone willing to collaborate is welcome, contact me or doku via pm so we can arrange a group work

edit: of course the problem of a sub community is due to italian ignorance, sorry to say like 80% of italians can't speak a word of english, so its natural to create an italian subcommunity, i guess others like maybe uk players wouldn't feel the same need as they can easily join xonotic.org.

thanks,

Nicholas

we have about 15 active people in the forum here, how many do you think will be active in subcommunities?

those subcommunities don't make sense as long as we don't have a lot of players.

dear jaykay in italian community i have about 10 people interested in a sub forum for now, thats why i put up the thread, its not for 1 user, and in the beginning more than a commuinty itslef it would be an info blog in italian.

also i don't want to expect for xonotic 1.0 to be released to have the infrastructure up, as I'll write to italian games magazines asking for reviews on game and community it would be best to have everything online

Hi!I am the only owner of xonotic.it . i'm not a troll so STOP LIE: you are a spoiled kid.You have some grudges with some old players but i dont care about it.
i've contacted you and your friends for several times to discuss about it(irc,mail,face to face).i offer to you all my support!
The answer was :WAIT!WAIT!WAIT! You say me to wait for more than one year....so i've search someone else more interested to build italian site.You and your Clan and old nexuiz site (INF) are disappeared from the net .Now you are envious that somebody try to set up the site and community without your permission.You think to be the Italian Boss only because your name is in dev(http://dev.xonotic.org/users/85) so you feel bypassed and now you are trying to rubbish me and my good-work!
why did you wake up now?????????If you wanna wait you are free to wait but dont throw mud on me.

i don't really feel bypassed, and especially not by a new one who has not even played nexuiz long enough to know what you're talking about, all the eu players who know me such as:
-Mirio
-Unknown
-all the uc clan i would say
-best eu players as well
-Dokujisan
-All x community
know well my efforts for the community and i quote jaykay:
we have about 15 active people in the forum here, how many do you think will be active in subcommunities?

those subcommunities don't make sense as long as we don't have a lot of players.

so i'm not talking about a real community, and that is why we have waited, if you keep this attitude i'll paste here the comments you made about the international community and the developers of xonotic and see what they think about a newcomer who insults players who have done much for community developement and pretends respect without giving it.
quote: You say me to wait for more than one year. this is impossible as 1 year ago i finished up nexuiz italian portal, forum, tourney site and everything else, i told you when nexuiz cracked to be patient. not 1 year ago, but i'm not interested in arguing every single thing you say, its not constructive, as i told you yesterday evening, considered that you are impatient, don't want to listen who has much more experience and insult everyone saying idiot things such as: you want to be a boss.. keep on it, do your community, do it yourself, but don't expect approval

edit: also i'd say this community has nothing to do with italian one, we are working on creating some unification beetween all the communities and this is not the place to argue about history, i gave my point of view, as long as we have already spoken about it, if you keep this behaviour you'll end up in flaming and beeing banned, as -Z- as already done in irc yesterday evening.

Anyway xonotic/nexuiz isn't my life, its an hobby i don't care to be boss of anyone in my hobbies i just wish to help, and my italian mates can confirm this, i have a job, a nice car and a gf i'm their boss not xonotic's

we have about 15 active people in the forum here, how many do you think will be active in subcommunities?

How do you define active? something like rainerzufalldererste? who mostly says yay or i like that.
From my point of view there are more then 15 active people, because many people just join the discussions they want, or just leave a single statement.

i'll paste here the comments you made about the international community and the developers of xonotic and see what they think about a newcomer who insults players who have done much for community development and pretends respect without giving it.

you are lying....paste what you want i haven't insult nobody....this is an evidence how you try to discredit me and an evidence of how you are a spoiled kid.
i don't expect your approval boss,but the approval of the rest of community why not?!!what's wrong with xonotic.it?is a bad idea create expectation and information about xonotic in italy were english is neglected?or the problem is that i've create the site and not you?
you are in flame,not me cause you wrote today and yesterday in irc a lot of bullshit and lies about me and xonotic.it!
so go ahead to write how friends in xonotic you have and how is cool be a dev....but remember: talk is cheap show me the code!

How do you define active? something like rainerzufalldererste? who mostly says yay or i like that.

lol!

iirc a german community side existed (leaded by esteel?). But for Germany/Austria/Swiss it maybe isnt that important to create a subforum or something like that than it is for italy and france maybe
I think there are a lot of french players who cant even speak a word english, too! (So that would be more necessary than a german coomunity forum). But ok, there are loads of german players and community members but almost everyone of them is able to speak at least a little english^^

But a good idea, indeed. Its another good way to bring xonotic to players who maybe dont speak english.

subsonik and SinSniper,
its quiet obvious that you have personal issues with each other. I dont know exactly what happened between you, but something went wrong between you. Both of you get petulant every time the Italian community is mentioned.
I appeal to both of you clarify your issues in a talk, but dont let it continue this way. You dont behave like adult persons with blaming each other.

subsonik, I would like to hear your version of the xonotic.it events on IRC, I'm sure Dokujisan would be interested as well.
Could you join the #xonotic channel on Quakenet (follow this link if you're not familiar with IRC), and highlight me on the channel? (just say MrBougo so I get an alert)
Thank you


And to all of you: don't turn this thread into a flamewar; if you want to debate, set your personal conflicts aside and converse in a civilized and constructive way.

I'm a bit OT, but it's important to clearly state a couple of points:
1) the only owner and admin of xonotic.it and forum.xonotic.it has always been SubSoNiK - no bartuc / skull involvment
2) SubSoNiK has nothing to do neither with the nexuiz.it nor with the destruction of that forum

so what's said in the opening post
"a few trolls ruining the forum and so on, trolls that have bought the http://www.xonotic.it"
is partially false.

What i understand from his posts is that SinSniper was trying to make a point to let the official Team Xonotic register domain names.
So, _from SinSniper's perspective_ subsonik acted against the agreement of the (english-speaking) community.
But _from the perspective of subsonik_ it was in the interest of the community to have an independent italian domain.

edit: also i'd say this community has nothing to do with italian one, we are working on creating some unification beetween all the communities and this is not the place to argue about history, i gave my point of view, as long as we have already spoken about it, if you keep this behaviour you'll end up in flaming and beeing banned, as -Z- as already done in irc yesterday evening.

I imagine a kid sticking out their tongue with this comment, which is not complete truth. I set the channel +m momentarily because of the escalating flame war caused by the disagreement between you two.

There was clearly a misunderstanding and perhaps even competition between you two. SinSniper believes the lack of coordination with the official team was an insult and attempt to undermine and achieve their own success under the guise of being official, SubSoNiK felt he was not doing anything wrong in the eyes of the GPL.

You're both essentially trying to do the same thing, build an Italian sub-community. It'd be beneficial first to each other if you try and work together, which I gather from the IRC chat log, SunSoNiK was trying to do at some point:

SubSoNiK I bought xonotic.it in april
SubSoNiK and the first thing i have made is take contact with sinsniper
SubSoNiK and nexuiz italian community
SubSoNiK i offer to sinsniper the hosting the badnwitch and the possibility to admin xonotic.it
SubSoNiK i offer this because i dont like the previous organization
SubSoNiK the hosting was offerd by netsons
SubSoNiK the server by gamezoo abd top-ix.it
SubSoNiK that one sponsore a lot of commercial game
SubSoNiK and top-ix.it was an IT company
SubSoNiK but evry time that i speak with sinsniper
SubSoNiK he seems not interested in my project, or always he would wait for something
SubSoNiK then nexuiz italian community disappear

If the above is true. I know it feels like your hardwork has been stepped on SinSniper but you two can help each other and more importantly the growth of the Italian community. If he's offering full control or willing to manage the services for you, this doesn't seem like he's trying to steal from you but rather appeal to a larger community. xonotic.it is a better domain than xonotic.forumfree.it ; the problem however, is that it sounds official.

I don't have a problem with unofficial sub-communities, I used to run one myself and some of my best times was had in and learning from these communities, Nexuiz Ninjaz, Galt's Gulch, Peace Brothers, HOCTF, etc.

However, operating as a separate entity can also limit the amount of growth or even mislead / give out the wrong messages about the game. Working with the Official Xonotic Project, the Italian community can benefit even more by getting news "downstream" from the Official site, perhaps coordinating in this respect to provide translations of Official Xonotic News/Content and also promote their News articles to the Xonotic homepage.

To summarize, if we all work together, the project and the community benefit.

There were initial talks about using the xonotic.net domain to create an official network for sub-communities but nothing beyond that yet. Without a complete plan, it doesn't make sense to go forward with it.xonotic.net, especially if it will just turn out to be another competing site to the two that already exist.

As Italy will likely be the first country to utilize this system, it's important we have willing participants and supporters. I propose the use of buddypress for this network. I would like to hear thoughts, opinions and whether or not you two (SubSoNiK and SinSniper) can get along and work together to help build the Italian community.

The official project is willing to work with you both to provide for your wants and needs and then reshare those abilities with other countries.

Excuse me all...
I'm a new user here but not new FPS games player...

Reading this thread (in fast mode on! ) I saw flames and I would like to say something about work done and time spent for players interests.

I was a Nexuiz.it forum member and I saw what Sinsniper done for it.
He did never say he was the leader or boss of the communuity but he worked hard to make the site a point of aggregation for those player who was novice or expert.
He took contacts with gamezoo.it having some servers where organize newby training or clan training, or simple matches betwin players who wants to setup game modes themself...
Sometimes happens guys have something else to do in real life so there was less activity on forum (including me! ) and I don't think there is someone who wants to work for "ghosts"

All this to say that Sinsniper (based on how I know him) likes who work to gain respect and he don't mind to be any kind of boss!

So... I hope to have been of help to soothe controversies that don't help to grow, because I believe that if people works in common to a project they get satisfactory results in short time!

[...]
I was a Nexuiz.it forum member and I saw what Sinsniper done for it.

Nobody ever questioned the work done by SinSniper;

He did never say he was the leader or boss of the communuity

he said it in IRC

"<SINsniper> mainly, after bartuc's betrayal, he left the forum destroyed, me and maidenbeast rebuilt everything
* xi0s è uscito (Signed off)
<SINsniper> on a different host, and we rebuilt the main page as well, the tourney site and also the download area, then the remaining community elected me and maiden as admins
<SINsniper> but it was useless as we were the creators of the community
* ModplanMan (~ModplanMa@91.108.184.140) è entrato in #Xonotic
<SINsniper> they simply said, yeah we are fine with what you have done, keep at it

[...]
All this to say that Sinsniper (based on how I know him) likes who work to gain respect and he don't mind to be any kind of boss!

again IRC
"<SINsniper> i don't care about being incharged of anything but i worked hard in past for nexuiz community
<atheros> and who cares? main community will always be on xonotic.org
<SINsniper> i know but i don't want them to rule over italian community "

to me this sounds like "i don't want to be the boss of the italian community but i've already demonstrated how good i am at it and i don't want them to rule over italian community"

I repeat for sake of clearness: nobody is questioning SinSniper's past work.
Problems rose AFTER the 'end' of nexuiz.it, when SubSoNiK tried to build xonotic.it

we have about 15 active people in the forum here, how many do you think will be active in subcommunities?

How do you define active? something like rainerzufalldererste? who mostly says yay or i like that.
From my point of view there are more then 15 active people, because many people just join the discussions they want, or just leave a single statement.

some one like cortez666, who always says "that's bad!" "i dont like that!"?

I was the director of nexuiz-france.com with wii-wii and ronan. We had a partnership with nexuiz.fr. Never had any problems. Stay calm and try to go all in the same direction, ie, to make xonotic live through communities, whether based on language (Italian, French ...) or based on something else.
It is thanks to the nice communities that nexuiz has been as successful.

No community is better than another one.
Nobody is the boss of something.
There is only enthusiasts gamerz playing together...

Stop the personal attacks and work together.