[DM] Darkzone [FINAL]

!!!111

EPIC!

Propably the best map in gaming history revisted! Me approves.

cool map is cool.





anyway, i'll take a look at it later

pretty

first problem though:
   
you used the wrong grate texture here. you need to use the one that is visible from both sides.

Cool!

This looks much better than that strange "inverse facility114" remake

Outside of some issues with the bots, I found this map rather enjoyable.

Perhaps make the map more "streamlined"? like round/bevel some corners, take the stuff that stands out of the walls (lamps) and fold them into the walls. A larger reward in the crylink cellar (maybe armour) and speeding up the opening of the hatch. Some skylights to match the outdoor view in the glass tunnel.

This is the perfect map for Warpzones!

How hard is it to add bot waypoints? I noticed this is something a lot of mappers forget/neglect.

The outdoor tunnel is my favorite part, style-wise anyway.

Cortez: would modifying the item layout be in the scope of your work?
I often felt that this map is rather underplayed because of few details.

adding bot waypoints isn't difficult, its just a pain.

pretty

first problem though:

you used the wrong grate texture here. you need to use the one that is visible from both sides.

Actually I recommend always using single-sided grate textures, but applying them on both sides of the brush. This avoids problems with the surface receiving light from two sides, which can create deluxemapping artifacts (e.g., black splotches).


Cortez666, this is very nice work!

Cortez: would modifying the item layout be in the scope of your work?
I often felt that this map is rather underplayed because of few details.

if you would tell me where you want modifications, it would be easier.
I want no total makeover, but of course if there are things which bug you. we can talk about it.

Perhaps make the map more "streamlined"? like round/bevel some corners, take the stuff that stands out of the walls (lamps) and fold them into the walls.

there 2 reasons why i dont make it streamlined. (i had the idea)
1. the texture set i used is not good for round things. Well you can use it for round things but its not easy.
2. the performance, because you have to use many patches which cause and impact on the performance. I haven't tried it how high the impact will be but i prefer some additional detail instead.

[tip] Creating Waypoints For Bots (so they don't stand still)
If you've ever made a custom map, you may be surprised to find the bots stand still unless they see an item, such as a weapon or health. Which they quickly take and get in your way. This is because bots require waypoints or a chain of target locations.

To save everyone the trouble I had searching for this information, I'm going to repost it here. I haven't perfected this technique so I can't really tips yet but I'll edit this thread when I learn more.

Nexuiz bots need waypoints to navigate the maps.
You can create waypoints fairly easy ingame:
create a new file Nexuiz/data/autoexec.cfg and copy the following lines in there:

Code:

bind i g_waypointeditor_spawn
bind o g_waypointeditor_remove
bind l g_waypointeditor_relinkall
bind k g_waypointeditor_saveall

Now start Nexuiz and load the map. Open the console (shift+esc) and enter
Code:

Code:

g_waypointeditor 1

Just run around and press "i" to add waypoints, if you want to delete one, aim at it and press "o". If you think some waypoints are not connected properly (can happen sometimes), press "l". When you're done, press "k" to save all waypoints.
All waypoints will be saved to Nexuiz/data/data/<mapname>.waypoints (Windows) or ~/.nexuiz/data/data/<mapname>.waypoints (Linux/MacOS).

if you would tell me where you want modifications, it would be easier.
I want no total makeover, but of course if there are things which bug you. we can talk about it.

As far as I saw, a major gameplay flaw is at the little room where the RL and mega are, which probably make this area too attractive. Most of players go and fight in it or just outside of it.
Plus, an advanced DM player can just go into this room, pick the RL and mega, and stay the whole game in it by waiting other players behind the teleporter gate.
So i suggest to either move the mega, either move the RL.
I would also suggest to slightly change the configuration of this room so as to avoid that someone hits you in the back just after being teleported in the room.

In turn, another thing is that the secret crylink room is probably not enough incentive. I would replace the crylink by a nex.

The rest of the map is just fine, imo.

Using the method Debugger posted, I have created basic waypoints for this map. There are still some sticky spots, but they eventually get themselves out and they don't just stand where they spawned now. And they go upstairs now too


  darkzone-waypoint:cache.zip (Size: 1.78 KB / Downloads: 2)

i agree with cortez about not replacing nex with crylink (generally, in my opinion, secret rooms shouldn't contain any important items) even now, when crylink is more usefull than before and nex a bit less. (btw. in nexuiz, i found out about this room after about 6 months....)

i agree with cortez about not replacing nex with crylink

but defiantly or not???...

Ok to let the crylink where it is. It was just an idea.

Retexturing is a nice thing. Especially when done by Cortez.
That being said, gentlemen, please don't forget that the final goal is that this map would be more played than in nexuiz.

i agree with cortez about not replacing nex with crylink

but defiantly or not???...

ok, i haven't read his post carefully enough... but i still agree

Retexturing is a nice thing. Especially when done by Cortez.

erm



its the first map i retexture for xonotic.

erm

what about Stepping Forward?

Please at least change the mega armor in room in tele by a +50 one instead, it is 2 seconds away from the mega health when taking teleporter.

There are way too many health packs on the map, there are 7 just following the top level. Remember there is already health regeneration for players. At least move some to the lower level where there are none, for example at mg ammo box in the tunnel that leads to the rocketlauncher.

From our discussion I know you don't care if your maps are played or not, which is fine because you map because you love mapping and that is great, but it's a bit frustrating for such a map with proven duel design/layout not to be played because of bad item placement. You said you used Nexuiz's version item placement because it's exactly like q1 version, but that is wrong, it had completely different item placement other then the megas and some weapons. Where you put ammo and health is VERY VERY important to gameplay and flow of the map.

There is too many bullet ammo packs, there are useless shells ammo packs, too many rockets (there already 2 rl and 1 mortar you can also pickup for ammo), too many health packs all placed around the same path, you put a weapon that nobody is going to risk going for under the trap door. Item placement seems completely random to me, it's as if they were placed there as decoration like "oh, this place looks empty, I'll put some ammo there to make it look prettier" without a thought on gameplay rather than "does it make sense to put an item there".

Don't get me wrong, I think the map looks great so far visually, but I also know you don't care when people just reply with "wow nice map! good job!" instead of saying something constructive.

If you don't care about it, then do you mind if I later make a different .ent file that I think would be better for duels to be used on pickup/duel servers?

it's a bit frustrating for such a map with proven duel design/layout not to be played because of bad item placement.

How could i not notice while reading this post for the first?

The item placement and Layout got NOTHING to do with the popularity of a map. Its all about personal preferences!

How could i not notice while reading this post for the first?

For the first? I've bugged you about it on irc many times. True, I realize was maybe not as specific as I was here, sorry about that, but I know I mentioned the health packs, the mega armor and the crylink before.

The item placement and Layout got NOTHING to do with the popularity of a map. Its all about personal preferences!

You are basically saying as long as the map is pretty, who the f*ck cares about gameplay? If you're making a duel map you're obviously aiming at a specific crowd, who definitely care about such things :/

You did a really good job about item placement with downer, so I thought you would be more open about it.

And fine, I give up, won't post anymore. I'll go sit in a corner, sorry for being annoying.

... also the reason why i came to the conclusion you have to like what you make, if some criticizes it then dont bother.

Ok, that was some general remarks on your philosophy. Fine.

Now, lets get back to the topic: darkzone.
- Who here criticized something? (I see here only suggestions...)
- let's assume someone did. You're not the creator of this map so criticizes would be unrelated to your work.

I just don't get what here justifies some "defiant" refusal to change a single thing in this map.

I want to keep it as a simple retextured version of SavageX's Darkzone version. At that point only the visuals are important for me and thats also the part where i put my emphasis on. I didnt bother much about the item placement, in nexuiz it was always fine for me, so no need for changes.
I simply wont include a new, because nearly every map got. This map doesnt need one too. Also there was never one.
Then the point was reached where nifrek goes into the direction 'if you dont do this, you map wont be played'
i fucking hate this. I already made more then enough maps to know, even if the item placement, layout gameplay and so one is perfect, people wont play. They stick to their habbits.
For example take a look at the old 1on1 ladder most of the matches, where played on aggressor and soylent (and later after it was added final rage). They were complaining we need more 1on1 maps (there where more then enough), but when thyrene made an attempt and added a few new maps to a 1on1 cup. No one played them.
If there is something which convinces the people they play it no matter how bad it is (take eyecancerctf as an example).
Thats nearly impossible with 1on1 players. they stick to the maps they know, because there they know the strategies how to play that map.

Thats why i dont bother, when people go the 'if you dont do that, your map wont be played' way

Yeah cortez,
Looking very nice.
My advice is just ignore any advice you don't like.
There is no need to justify your decisions, it's your map: do what you feel.
But feel free to ignore my advice as you see fit :3
...
I saw a coupla things which I would change if it were my map.... lol.
I guess peeps already pointed out the z-fighting on the bottom of the zappy electricity containers. You could either just caulk the end and lose that face of electricty shader, or just move that face a little bit up the cylinder so that the two faces don't share the same plane.
...
Those lights on the wall, I rather bonk my head on them, mebbe they could be non solid?
...
Map feels great btw, nice touches all over it.
I'm still trying to back to mapping after killing my XP install.
Nearly there.
FWOOT!