Music and Sound forum section discussion

Hey!

This idea was dropped some time in the past (by me - I confess!).

Now, it has clarified in my mind, and because of the recent things happening in another thread, I think that music can be developed much like software here - through help of social interactions.

I'd like a place where:

• General music preparation/submission/mixing/mastering tips are displayed as a pinned thread (as short and unambigous as possible)
  
• Every track just like any other feature can have it's own thread for discissing how it should evolve, what can be changed in it to better fit the gameplay, suggesting maps this track would match, getting feedback from players, showing off different versions, sharing sources, voting on possible maps/game types to use the track in etc.
  
• Music considered as finished and polished can be shown to a few peoples who know something about music, and could decide if the track is accepted to join the game's official pool of music (should I say: soundtrack?) or it should undergo some further changes.
  
• A list of officially accepted tracks with will be displayed for everyone to see what is what;
  
• Mappers can quickly listen to and pick music for their maps - also get the files needed and add their map's name/link to the list of "maps using this track" so everyone know what is what;
  
• Sound effects have a place to be discussed, accepted, added and used too, just like music;
  

Also, I'd like to suggest a few Forum modifications:

• Make forum accept Ogg/FLAC/MP3/WAV attachements;
  
• Make it embed a built-in audio player (html5?) with download option
  
• Make forum accept the project files for music in some way (.zip?)
  

And also give some food for thought about making it easier for players to test music in-game - a loop function in the forum player? A loop function reading file "loop_start" and "loop_end" tags and looping files accordingly?

What say thou?

I'm only in position of addressing the forum modification suggestions. I'm not in favor of any modification because it's already complicated enough as it is now to maintain things. But in any case, I don't think we want to have too many attachments in the forum database. Perhaps it's better to host the tracks on youtube or soundcloud, which can already be embedded in posts. Project files, I don't know; those tend to be heavy, don't they?

For the split, I'm not in position to decide anything. If you want, I can call a team vote over this.

For the split, I'm not in position to decide anything. If you want, I can call a team vote over this.

Yes, please.

Suggestions:

• Move all audio related threads there (*can do*).
  
• Have two official threads for serious submissions (new), each for "Music" and "Sound", including a guideline what is needed and so on.
  
• unfa as moderator of that subforum
  

..and what unfa listed (before "Forum modifications").

Okay, poll's created, will be visible on this url when it's closed (max. ten days) http://46.4.83.5:27500/poll/256

For the split, I'm not in position to decide anything. If you want, I can call a team vote over this.

• Move all audio related threads there (*can do*).
  
• Have two official threads for serious submissions (new), each for "Music" and "Sound", including a guideline what is needed and so on.
  
• unfa as moderator of that subforum
  

..and what unfa listed (before "Forum modifications").

Hmm. After a track or a sound/soundpack is submitted and accepted, it should also be visible to public (for mappers mostly) as such.

I suggested a separate sticky thread for "Accepted music" so maybe just another for "Accepted sounds" would be good?

I'd like to moderate this subforum - I'd just need some help in the beginning and a little "training course" what to do.

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I'm only in position of addressing the forum modification suggestions. I'm not in favor of any modification because it's already complicated enough as it is now to maintain things. But in any case, I don't think we want to have too many attachments in the forum database. Perhaps it's better to host the tracks on youtube or soundcloud, which can already be embedded in posts. Project files, I don't know; those tend to be heavy, don't they?

For the split, I'm not in position to decide anything. If you want, I can call a team vote over this.

If the problem is that people need to moderate the forum posts, and new subforum means more work - I can help with this and moderate the music/sound subforum.

Soundcoud might work, however if it's possible to create such a tool would be great - mappers can host their screenshots and map packages on the forums, but musicians need to find another way around.

The size of source files for music depends on how it's made and what is used in production (also: how much you want to deliver - I won't deliver a render and and my Audacity session where I have "mastered" the track - it's pointless and would add 50-100 MB and no extra possibilities.

If I recorded an acoustic track with guitars and live percussion on 5 tracks, I'd have 500-1000 MB of source files of this track, but since I'm making electronic music with synthesizers, my source files rarely exceed 1 MB. If I record a sample or two, it might jump to 3 or 5 MB maybe, but I do this rarely.

If the problem is that people need to moderate the forum posts, and new subforum means more work - I can help with this and moderate the music/sound subforum.

Soundcoud might work, however if it's possible to create such a tool would be great - mappers can host their screenshots and map packages on the forums, but musicians need to find another way around.

The size of source files for music depends on how it's made and what is used in production (also: how much you want to deliver - I won't deliver a render and and my Audacity session where I have "mastered" the track - it's pointless and would add 50-100 MB and no extra possibilities.

If I recorded an acoustic track with guitars and live percussion on 5 tracks, I'd have 500-1000 MB of source files of this track, but since I'm making electronic music with synthesizers, my source files rarely exceed 1 MB. If I record a sample or two, it might jump to 3 or 5 MB maybe, but I do this rarely.

The problem isn't about moderation, it's about available storage space on our web servers and maintenance of forum modifications.

I don't want to mod the forums further because we already have enough trouble maintaining it as it is. Instead of transforming the attachment system into a streaming platform, I suggest you use external services that are already available. Mappers usually host their screenshots on third-party hosts as well.

People are free to attach zip files, but I can't say how reliable the forums are as a hosting service. I don't know what our limitations are, or how failure-tolerant the system is. Don't rely on it.

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As for the subsection, that's up to you, I guess. However, we can not accept music into the official soundtrack without consulting the team as a whole through a team vote. The forum section can be very useful to curate tracks as a first step toward inclusion, as well as to serve mappers for community content.

I'm nobody but I'm here just to say that I think is a nice idea to have a subforum about music developement.

About attaching files... Heh, I'm here to support a new subforum

Okay. The team has accepted the vote, so I'm just waiting for someone who can help execute this idea.

Oopsy. Glad you're insisting. It's done now!

It's empty for now, but if you want me to move some threads in it, feel free to ask. Please also check that the name and description are okay for you

I'd just move the related threads there.

We'll see with unfa. If he wants to stick with a given format or set of rules, maybe moving threads isn't a good idea.

I think the name and description are ok.

However it'd be good to divide the space inside for a few things as I wrote eariler.

Divide the space inside? You mean have subcategories as is done in WW?

It wouldn't be very consistent with the other forums, and it would not necessarily make things simpler, but if you feel that it's needed or would help, let me know what categories you want

Divide the space inside? You mean have subcategories as is done in WW?

It wouldn't be very consistent with the other forums, and it would not necessarily make things simpler, but if you feel that it's needed or would help, let me know what categories you want

I thought about some divisions, but maybe this can be done with sticky threads, as Mirio suggested to me on IRC.

I'm thinking of these sticky threads:

· Before you submit a track (Music tips and guidelines)
· Accepted Music (Music agreed for the OST - mappers can use tracknumber)
· Music Submissions (Music regarded as finished and polled for voting - mappers can find music for unofficial maps here)
· Music References (Tracks we like from other games, that might be good inspiration)

I wonder what to do with Sound - I'm not sure how new SFX could actually make it into the game oficially, I mean - would it make sense? Or maybe I should create a thread where all the good stuff is linked so mappers can come around and use what they need for their maps?)

I guess the music will get way more attention anyway.

Mhm. How this new forum relates to development for contribution to the OST (as opposed to tracks that mappers can use but aren't planned for inclusion) is something that you should discuss with the core team.

As for sound, it also includes voice work (announcer, taunts...), or ambient sfx as well. I don't know whether that's relevant to the new section or whether you are / want to / should be in charge of that.

This all should really be discussed with the team I think. I personally don't know how sound dev is organized, or what is or isn't needed. I'm just assisting with the forum stuff right now ;P

As for songs, there were posted in the official thread and then we had public polls about inclusion.

Yeah, but that was a long time ago. Better ask the core team.

Yeah, but that was a long time ago. Better ask the core team.

Because there were no more songs added since that last poll.
(respectively no one was in charge really)

My, core team member , opinion:
People should post their songs in an official thread for submissions. Then the guys responsible in the team for music/sound (unfa & Archer) check them (source etc.) and propose a poll with about 20 songs.

Perhaps it's better to host the tracks on youtube or soundcloud, which can already be embedded in posts.

I can't find any way to embed soundcloud tracks, though I'd love it if this were possible at some point (or perhaps if somebody would tell me how if it is already possible )

Project files, I don't know; those tend to be heavy, don't they?

Generally a few hundred kb in my experience, most of the size usually comes from samples if any were used.

Yeah, the soundcloud thing is a bit hidden. Wrap the track url around [sc][/sc] or [soundcloud][/soundcloud]. Actually I'm not sure it works anymore, I'll do some tests.

EDIT: There, fixed it. You can also click "share" on the track, select embed, check the "wordpress" checkbox and copy the code as-is into the forum.

Let me know if you want be able to embed playlists, I'll see what I can do.

Hey!

This idea was dropped some time in the past (by me - I confess!).

Now, it has clarified in my mind, and because of the recent things happening in another thread, I think that music can be developed much like software here - through help of social interactions.

What say thou?

Hi Unfa !
well, you know, things are a bit complicated now.
recently i was looking for some game and found this one and then i see you here, so i had in mind an idea to update some music, you know.
But i ddecided - it would be better to have a radio broadcast with some music lists after playlist votes maybe
and then let's say LMMS competitions fun will go to such a gamers radio - so it will be not just one game, but many, who wants to join
so the artists will also send their work for votes and then it goes to all.
but also in game people will be able to vote in real time and maybe switch that stuff with server vote
i mean this can be some ingame stuff - like they need to shoot somewhere to switch song and they can fight for that like CTF thing, you know.
and this type of game can be implemented with radio-stuff itself, so other games will need to implement that also.
But basically just a udp broadcast with some user feedback. But this way - they will create a new playlist with top game-track artists.
maybe / maybe not
of course it will need some sort of premoderation, but i wouldn't make it LMMS only stuff, i saw you produce a new DAW and i got few
basically there is a game metal hellsinger - when people shoot in a neat music moment - they get some buff, you can see they got some special FMOD DAW for that (seems to be proprietary or something, but we were discussin such in LMMS thread years ago/musical game emgine) - that can be used aalso, or the new DAW you got - you can implement as a part of game engine. but this is a hardcoding, radio stuff is easy to do and when it takes about time, well, the money raise too - that's the way of few projects to do something together.
Well, the easy way - is about to share some server side among users of few game clients, using same map data, for example - that's what i thought for years, but it has some specific , when games has some sort of competition between, but for user side - just more people to play with.
And if they can implement radio-side - maybe they'll go for more - it's about some tick rate and port-stuff, basically same (universal) client-server command system and map coords. this can be  done with some map-recast, i mean just make -j4 it the same for all, but leave the textures and bot hangaround kinda authentic. i'd get also for half-life (q2?), COD (q3?), Unity and UT maps - but it's too hard to do, they got maps and map-editors also, most stuff is about shaders agains textures, but the bones_is_the_same. alienArena for example/ you can switch/vote maps to include the best in the big-station // the easy stuff with music is about export 2-3 midi lines with final audio and link triggers to midi or just a quick build with sidechain for any
btw it would be better to compile it for android, there are also free redistributors to share it for all. people need to set gamepad prob
i like because i got 140 fps with my old cpu for this - phone can do the same with it, just make the auto-aim to hands or legs only // T1000 pre-req, // but not head-shots
if you add music support and android compile - then i can (as an artist) compile it with my music and share it maybe as an album or something, i mean this can change things and it would be nice to have a station for more music as well, if that will be good - maybe realise the "3d effects room" - kinda winamp video plugins, but let's say interactive
and the WOW thing - you can use those effects as a shader part for levels, like your skin or outfit textures will change colors depending on music played for you and your buffs or armor will work harder or your shots and lean sometimes / this will need some in minute trigger limit, kinda bpm
well they can just jump to anothher server if they don't like the playlist or simply switch music off
it's not hard really, just add few triggers to parameters and read some files in sync with music to activate it. if you just put that to random, people can't understand that and ...
the map stuff also can be more complicated, so people can play different settings on same platform and in terms of gameplay - if we know there is 2gb free memory - it's possible to load level in background, but why just 1 ? meaning if we got few servers running with average load - we can add all those in one pool with cross connections. so people can pass through few maps - just tp here and there, just add some doors, if it is ready and some counter on what happens there. for small maps it's alright to join 3 + 4 players like teams of the room so the CTF would be a crossmap stuff. and from different clients. it needs some sort of leveling stats to balance teams. So while they fight in same room - they get soe stats and places, then we search for about the same player stats another room and join those servers, people gets in one team with leader seen for all teammates and some commanding stuff, etc... for example weapon and health respawn can be triggered only after all teams will leave the room or original team win the level.
maybe drop some perm buffs and items to acquire as a 5-frag loot (room overall, drop from fragged, 3-5-8 counter = number of players without bots) and those can be dropped from players and looted again, but just 1 for a person with time of use upscaling buff intensity. these buffs can be triggered wih music, so if there is a midi line - notes can trgger level of intensity also. and if there is 2-3 midi lines, maybe wear|activate few buffs. There should be some buff energy \ power for when it is used - it was running out for a cooldown period or something and it depends on intensity of use. Counter players will see the glow of weapons only and player will see his weapon too, teammates will see the aura glow intensity change and the color. it would be fun if they vote for some song and then it will play for all - so everybody would run more like in a dancing state, somehow different with music vibe, maybe with parkour or climbing walls (except bots). And maybe if they shoot - it will be auto synced with drum line for all, meaning you got to hold the button or click in the exact time and in wrong time - it wont work and this will be also a buffed shot