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Open letter to servers' admins

#1
Okay, I'm through


Why most of the servers runs on some ridiculous custom settings with some really weak custom maps - like big box?

Can't we play this game normally? Stock maps are very good, Xonotic has a lot of weapons with 2 firemodes, there is a LOT to explore in this fantastic game.

But no... Let every guy who downloaded Netradiant has his 5 minutes of fame.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in custom mapping by myself, slowly learning this stuff. But do server admins really must put bad custom maps on servers?

It's annoying like hell. I want to play this game, learn it. It's hard when whenever I connect I get tons of pk3 downloaded - like big box with jump pad in the middle.


Xonotic is such wonderful game but server admins really like to troll ppl. Just think - player who just downloaded this game not only meet 50 players tops on few active servers, but has to play maps which are pain in the ass. You think he will stay with Xonotic?

He will buy CounterStrike Global Offensive for 15$.
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#2
What servers are you thinking about? Find a way to contact the admin.

Why are the maps voted at all? Is there demand for this?
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#3
I often saw such a situation.

Ppl vote for map and then almost instantly endmatch. I guess players are curious? I would be. Problem is that admins put bad maps in the cycle. They should use their experience to filter bad maps from the ones created by talented people.

About contacting admins - well, it's a good idea.
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#4
*Venting detected...

But in all seriousness, I do agree that there are far too many low-quality maps on some servers.
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#5
rocknroll237, what do you consider low quality? If you've played nexuiz, is succer_socks low quality? What about augenkrebs or eyecancer? (sorry divVerent, you're just so good at making these Tongue) Those are IMHO "quality" maps as they offer interesting gameplay that isn't too broken. Well, maybe not succer_socks. But it was still rather playable even though it was a big mess.
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#6
I frequent DCC, MoN and Subzero servers, and there is pretty much universal agreement which maps are played, as they are consistently chosen over others. I'm talking about maps like tarx, space-elevator, stormkeep, xoylent, etc. And I'm fine with that - I don't want tons of mediocre maps hogging my disk space.

Quote:eyecancer

Never played that one. Is it available for Xonotic?

Augenkrebs is kind of poorly designed, especially for CTF, it's much faster to cap flag out in the open than the one in the building.

My favourite map of all time? Eggandbacon Big Grin
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#7
I really don't remember any ctf maps being considered "mediocre" in nexuiz, except maybe for space_hampster. Can you provide concrete examples of mediocre maps? Is this problem really plaguing servers as Majki is suggesting?
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#8
Huh? I said specifically they are not getting chosen for the most part - and I'm fine with that. Maps that I consider mediocre? Like, I don't know, xyon or snow_beta - novel looking but once you've seen them, it wears off quickly.
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#9
Guys - I love playing stock maps in Xonotic. They are very carefully designed - not only they are looking damn good, they have good layouts. Someone spent time working on them.

And then I go play some map based on platforms for example - and platforms are too small for smooth movement, they are elevated too high, and every jump costs you half of HP while landing. This is bad design.

Same goes with some CTF maps. Big, fat, boxed rectangles, ofc mirrored. With badly planned campspots, horribly long lines of sight.
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#10
Hm, makes sense. Maybe people from different backgrounds prefer it otherwise, but in nex I loved that there were several dozens of (however rough-looking) maps to select from. I didn't care that much for gameplay fine-tuning, they all had their little quirks and that made gameplay interesting. Playing on just five or so different maps sounds terribly boring to me.
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#11
Tell that to Valve - CS is played on 5, 6 maps in fact for years.


YOU, happy MrBougo, you might like eggsandbacon. But a lot of casual, not-die-hard-fans, just skip Xonotic and go to some "normal" game.
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#12
(06-05-2012, 05:24 PM)rafallus Wrote:
Quote:eyecancer

Never played that one. Is it available for Xonotic?

yes it is sadly.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#13
I know I have opinions. I clearly stated them as such. I really dig custom, community-made maps, it's what really made the game worthwhile to me. But I guess this is also due to the lack of good default maps in nexuiz, especially in ctf (it had only one ctf map I think?).

I agree that it would be cool to have default map servers, but I don't want to discourage people from creating and hosting custom maps.

If people like it casual, there's nothing you can do against that except promote serious gameplay as an alternative. I had the same problem with minsta CTF vs. "normal" CTF as you did with "casual" maps vs. "serious" maps. And let's not forget that radio-bogen server. Anyone remember that? UGH

(06-05-2012, 05:48 PM)Cortez666 Wrote:
(06-05-2012, 05:24 PM)rafallus Wrote:
Quote:eyecancer

Never played that one. Is it available for Xonotic?

yes it is sadly.

Hey, it's an interesting map! How else would I know about the free software song!
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#14
Quote:I really dig custom, community-made maps, it's what really made the game worthwhile to me

I'm all for custom maps! Just let admins choose the ones created by mappers who take their task seriously.
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#15
(06-05-2012, 05:56 PM)Majki Wrote: I'm all for custom maps! Just let admins choose the ones created by mappers who take their task seriously.
Okay, we're cool then!

I don't think I can take this much further because I don't think you've played the maps that I mentioned, and I certainly haven't played the ones that you did. I think we agree in principle, except that I like silly (yet playable) maps.
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#16
Perhaps this is where a sort of map rating/map info system could come in. It's been discussed before and I think it would help players know what kind of map they're about to play on.

Quote:what do you consider low quality?

I see your point Mr B. I mean are low quality maps the ones that look like crud? Or are they ones where there is poor flow? Or are they even the ones where the item placement is poor? It's subjective.

But... At then end of the day, if you don't like silly maps, CHANGE SERVERS!
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#17
NA players can play on my server(W4RP1G's FRAG-FEST) or on the srkdy's [0.6] Washington DC server for normal games settings, normal maps, and voting. and by normal maps, I mean not a big cube or ridiculous eye cancer.

Also, my other server, the target/combo practice server, is clearly labeled and is not intended for anything but target/combo practice. Just putting that out there.
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#18
The bottom line is that ugly maps with simple geometry are fun to play once in a while. You can't change that - if something is fun then it's chosen to be played. Just like throwing 10 ppl on a small 1on1 map to have a fragfest - it is also fun once in a while ;-).

I expect the ugly maps to vanish once there are more quality maps for Xonotic.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#19
As for maps, "official" doesn't equal "good" in many cases. They look pretty but have boring gameplay.
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#20
(06-05-2012, 06:23 PM)rocknroll237 Wrote: But... At then end of the day, if you don't like silly maps, CHANGE SERVERS!

This.

This topic got a great example: Majki hates eggandbacon, rafallus loves it. It's all about personal taste and guess why some maps are played a lot.. ? Obviously it's fun for the majority.
If you don't like a map, just spectate it.
You can use "suggestmap <mapname>" once and it will appear in the next voting screen btw.

You don't have to like every map - e.g. I don't like Mentalspace, but people love it.. I could destroy their fun by defending/camping there, but I rather spectate it.

@Majki: You don't like a map like a box, but also not big maps.. makes me think, which do you like? Names please, "stock" is wish-wash.
If you don't know the names you can either dig your dlcache folder or describe some, I can guess those pretty good - I'm a dectective©. Tongue
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#21
I agree with the overall problem, that there are more exceptions to the standard rules (whatever these are) than instances of it. Regarding the maps, I once asked on irc if there is already a set of maps, which might turn out to be the 'official' ones. But so far it doesn't seem so. So, what might work is to have a look at xonstat and pick the most popular maps per gametype, availability and purpose (which are I think not registered in xonstat, but can be found out?). This approach would at least have a high sampling rate.
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#22
Hoi ho.

As far as i see here, it's a matter of personal taste. And when the majority elects "the wrong map" / "a fuckin' unplayable piece a shi* " it still has been voted.
That you dont like some of these maps I can understand. Really well tbh.
I love Tripzone - but everyone seems to hate it; I like Afterslime a lot, and it's a really fun map to play, but doesnt work on public games p.e. .

You can always do a <suggestmap 'mapname'>. But this only works for one mapsuggestion per game.
The command to list the maps available on the server is <lsmaps>, also in console, like the suggestmap command.


So - and on behalf of the server-admins:
We dont have time clicking and searching the whole forum every day, searching for new maps, maps that would be nice, but being considered as alpha or beta, or even test every single new map that shows up.

We need input - for that, please use one of the following threads (i see you found 'em already Majki):

DCC goes Xonotic
DCC Servers

Suggest maps THERE. Suggest to kick maps there, or make a suggestion that a map shouldnt show up in the maprotation, but should be accessible through the <suggestmap 'mapname'> command.

Input appreciated.
[Image: Sigsig.jpg]
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#23
Quote:We dont have time clicking and searching the whole forum every day, searching for new maps, maps that would be nice, but being considered as alpha or beta, or even test every single new map that shows up.

There is no need for that. Go for stock ones, choose best custom and if some new map is suggested, try it locally before you add it to mapcycle. You play this game long enough to distinct bad maps from good ones.
Quote:As far as i see here, it's a matter of personal taste. And when the majority elects "the wrong map" / "a fuckin' unplayable piece a shi* " it still has been voted.

Ppl will play DCC no matter what - it's the only public server which is always full.
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#24
(06-06-2012, 05:00 AM)Majki Wrote: Ppl will play DCC no matter what - it's the only public server which is always full.

Good ping and a name that's pronounceable instead of being a random mix of ascii art and leet speak are probably the main causes of it's popularity ;-D.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#25
(06-06-2012, 05:00 AM)Majki Wrote: There is no need for that. Go for stock ones, choose best custom and if some new map is suggested, try it locally before you add it to mapcycle. You play this game long enough to distinct bad maps from good ones.

Good and bad is relative.
DCC just runs the most popular maps and no one likes every map, nor someone hates every map.

Define 'good' (and not only by 'stock', -> names)!

Even better: Create a map that is good in your opinion and we can try if it gets more popular than some of the current maps. Idea
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