Whatever happened to the Ivan model?

As I said, what happened to the Ivan player model he did. It was really awesome. If you don't know what I'm talking about check this video out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRoXsl7ZqU

I did some animations for that but ever since the change to Xonotic it seems to have been forgotten.
And on that subject, are the animations the same as Nexuiz or have they been redone?

If you don't know what I'm talking about check this video out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRoXsl7ZqU

If only this video wasn't just looking at the back of the players head all of the time, then it might show something. I was wondering though that Xonotic did seem to be down a player model or two but perhaps that's just skins rather than models?

Well anyone who knows about this model would immediately recognize it, I assume it would be any developer or a community member from the Nexuiz era that would hopefully have an answer.
But yeah, here's a picture. The texture is awesome so it wouldn't make any sense to just keep the model and throw away the textures, thus why I believe this model isn't in the game.



Was too lazy to make a picture before, hoping someone would come up with an answer. But you forced me to do the little work it takes to take screenshots... you bastard! :p

afaik it was playable in nexuiz and somewhere there was a pk3

Put it back in!

I would suggest you try to find it in one somewhere Seijiro and if it's GPL then you could probably add a ticket here http://dev.xonotic.org/projects/xonotic/...acker_id=2 . (note it's have to be approved by all members in the core team, if it's even possible to get it in the game.)

I have the obj and the smd (for the animations I did). I have no idea how to even convert it to .iqm the new format. Never seen it before nor have I done any research in that. Once it is converted to .iqm I believe everyone will agree to put it in there as it is a really good model and Xonotic can definitely use more.

If anyone wants to try convert or do other stuff with here it is: www.kurotorobert.com/ai/xonotic/models/Ivan.zip

PS. Yes it is GPL the dude who released it agreed to that.

Remember that individual models are prohibited. If you want to have a model included with the game it needs to belong to a set including male and female versions.

Remember that individual models are prohibited. If you want to have a model included with the game it needs to belong to a set including male and female versions.

Well that's a ridiculous rule. This will make it even harder to get new developers to do some work for Xonotic not to mention restricting potential good quality models which could be included already. Wow... who came up with this idea, and sorry but, it's a really stupid one. I do see why the developers wants to have a set, especially if they are going in that style, much like UT. But seriously, Xonotic already has a hard time getting good content and developers. No need to restrict it more.

Anyway, I bet that's already been discussed, if not, it should. Then I guess this is the end of this awesome model because I'm not going to do a female version.

PS. This also explains the lack of player models in Xon compared to Nexuiz. I loved that Robot model. I just lost a bit of respect for Xonotic.

EDIT: Ok, I'm not sure if what Silence said was true or not, for now I'm holding out on forming any conclusions or opinions. I would love to have this confirmed or denied by any developer who's informed.

give it some lipstick and its ready

Remember that individual models are prohibited. If you want to have a model included with the game it needs to belong to a set including male and female versions.

Well that's a ridiculous rule. This will make it even harder to get new developers to do some work for Xonotic not to mention restricting potential good quality models which could be included already. Wow... who came up with this idea, and sorry but, it's a really stupid one. I do see why the developers wants to have a set, especially if they are going in that style, much like UT. But seriously, Xonotic already has a hard time getting good content and developers. No need to restrict it more.

i'm quoting Oblivion, who is the artist behind a lot of player and weapon models:

b) Factions. Each player model must be a SET of player models, not just one. Ideally a minimum of two player models is required before approval for inclusion: male and female. Solo models will not be approved unless variations of which are made. For example, an artist might make a set of three players all with shiny mirrorlike armors, they will become a faction within Xonotic. Another artist might make a set of five players who look vaguely military, they will become another faction of Xonotic. If an artist makes a single player model who looks vaguely cyborgish but only makes one, it will be shelved or only be available as a separate model and not included in xonotic until he or another artist can make another model which is similar to the one he made.

The model variation can range from simply switching different heads for bodies or having extra armor/equipment to being of different genders and/or races. e.g. faction XYZ has a distinctive armor pattern, it has three models: XYZ1 having a mickey mouse tattoo on his back, while on XYZ2 it's a bird and the head has an eyepatch, while XYZ3 is female and has a hat on.

The faction's artstyle is the responsibility of the creator and subject to approval of the (yet to be formed) art team board or the (yet to volunteer) art director. This will ensure each faction will maintain a certain artstyle which when established can be copied easily. He might also (if inclined) invent the faction's background including descriptions.

However, due to the lack of any art board or director, I can't say that this rule is actually valid.

I think that it's a good idea to require "factions" so we don't have the same problem that Nexuiz had with varying artstyles and inconsistent quality.

Okay, just one question were was this quote taken from?
And yes, it is as you say, because there is no art team (as far as I know), nor is Oblivion a listed developer these things are not set in stone. I agree factions is nice and all, but we also have to be realistic, no single person will develop 3+ player models unless he/she is REALLY dedicated, which basically means only one person probably will be responsible for the majority of player models, and thus that person will create these factions so no problem there.
Xonotic has to really rise in popularity before that pipedream can come true. I've been around for a long time, I haven't seen this little amount of volunteers and dedication to this games art assets ever. Of course I've just recently gotten into this community again, but what I have seen so far the community hasn't grown.

And as far as the Ivan playermodel is concerned, it sure fits the quality and general current artstyle of the game.

Xonotic has to really rise in popularity before that pipedream can come true. I've been around for a long time, I haven't seen this little amount of volunteers and dedication to this games art assets ever.

Chicken and egg problem :/
We won't do any PR until the official 1.0 release, but as a result we aren't getting the contributors to get to 1.0 within the next decade

I've been around for a long time, I haven't seen this little amount of volunteers and dedication to this games art assets ever. Of course I've just recently gotten into this community again, but what I have seen so far the community hasn't grown.
And as far as the Ivan playermodel is concerned, it sure fits the quality and general current artstyle of the game.

really? ... really? ...
nexuiz was around for at least 3+ times the amount of time xonotic has been around ... and xonotic already has plenty of high quality texture packs -- props/models -- sounds -- and other art assets ...

this community is also not dead ... I was with bzflag as it shrivled up and died ...and secret maryo chronicles hasn't seen major action in years ... xonotic is nowhere near dead ...

I would appoint myself as art director ... however ... I am still learning ... and dont have the athority to do that of course ... and I haven't actually released anything thats finished ...


now ... about the model ...

WHATS GOOD
-------------------------------
==over all it looks reasonable
==fits the style more or less
==its bipedal ... and the same size as the other models (just judging from the screenshot here)

WHAT IT NEEDS
------------------------------
== the texture is currently only the color map -- in xonotic you also need a gloss map, a glow map, and a normal map (try the gimp normal map plugin) (a cubemap is optional ... but welcome)
== it needs to come in a set in order to maintain visual consistency ... that does not mean there needs to be a girl model ... especially if its an alien ... its specious could have a ant like system for all we know ... What it does need is 2 other versions that are a little different ... maybe armor variations, different colors, different number of eyes, ect
== also ... what about the voices?


...

really? ... really? ...
nexuiz was around for at least 3+ times the amount of time xonotic has been around ... and xonotic already has plenty of high quality texture packs -- props/models -- sounds -- and other art assets ... this community is also not dead ...

I'm not saying Xonotic nor Nexuiz didn't have high quality maps nor did I say this community is dead. All I pointed out is that the community was bigger in the Nexuiz era, but that's not the point. The point is that there were more contributors in the Nexuiz era than what I've seen in Xonotic so far. Maps however, will pretty much always be made. There are plenty of folks that do level design and stuff like that as a hobby.
There are not as many modelers, coders, animator or even musicians out there that are willing to contribute to Xonotic."

WHAT IT NEEDS
------------------------------
== the texture is currently only the color map -- in xonotic you also need a gloss map, a glow map, and a normal map (try the gimp normal map plugin) (a cubemap is optional ... but welcome)
== it needs to come in a set in order to maintain visual consistency ... that does not mean there needs to be a girl model ... especially if its an alien ... its specious could have a ant like system for all we know ... What it does need is 2 other versions that are a little different ... maybe armor variations, different colors, different number of eyes, ect
== also ... what about the voices?

The gloss maps are relatively simple to do as are normal, glow etc.
What is not as simple to do is the variations (which this whole topic is about, I think you missed that point). If you set standards that you MUST have different variations, there will be fewer people willing to contribute. That's just the nature of humans, we are all lazy.
Until you have a big enough community with enough contributors, setting standards like that will only hurt you in the long run, as Silence mentioned just now above with the catch 22 dilemma.

I think memory might be painting your picture a little prettier than it was. In my recollection the main problem in Nexuiz was lack of modelers and coders

So anyway, the male vs female thing was already taken out of context. All that says is that a model should belong to a group of models that are similar. At a minimum a male and female set of 2. But as quoted, there are also other options like having the same model with different heads, different models with similar armour, etc. I don't seriously think Oblivion meant we're supposed to slap lipstick on this model to make it look transsexual - I mean female - and you don't either

I guess Oblivion's main fear is that the player models would become a randomly slapped together set of models that seem to have little in common. But as it currently is, I do think the models could do with a lot more variety. That would give the game a distinct feel and more character than it currently has.

Maybe the dev team might want to reconsider this demand for playermodels - seeing as we are kinda short on modelers (again). But just in case this remains in place: who here has enough modeling skills to take this Ivan model and expand upon it to create a set? By all means slap a helmet on it for example, or give it a jetpack...
I know next to nothing about modeling formats, but do we have the source? (I sure hope so, otherwise this whole discussion about inclusion is kinda pointless).

Well sure, Nexuiz was short on modelers and coders, but from what I see right now (which could be wrong), Xonotic has even less so.

I am more than qualified to remodel this character to whatever I want, but I'm not really going to. Occupied with other stuff. The link I posted is to the .obj format which is suitable to import in pretty much any modeling package. However, exporting it or converting it to .iqm I have no idea how to do. I bet there's a nice guide somewhere for anyone who wants to remodel it.

But as I said earlier, I'm not against having sets but the requirement that you have to have a set for it to be included, at least initially. Once Xonotic is at 1.0 and people PR:ing it and all that, then you may get more contributors and thus can impose such things as set requirements. But for now, once there is little to no one contributing things like this, setting these limitations just hurts Xonotic in the long run.

Maybe the dev team might want to reconsider this demand for playermodels - seeing as we are kinda short on modelers (again). But just in case this remains in place: who here has enough modeling skills to take this Ivan model and expand upon it to create a set? By all means slap a helmet on it for example, or give it a jetpack...

I can TRY, but my imagination is... slightly limited. I will try to fiddle with it a little bit, but i am not promising anything...

I have made a helmet for him. I tried to follow the style, not sure if I succeed. I also made minor improvements on body texture.

Well my dear aa, that's some good stuff already! My only criticism would be that it looks a little fragile compared to the size of his head and the rest of the armor, which is quite bulky. Especially the flaps on the side look a little too thin to protect this big fella. Maybe you could extend the heavier detail at the front to the back of the head, and from there go to the sides, towards the mouth? But IMO it's pretty good already, so please wait for people with a better artistic eye than me

Edit: this is sort of what I meant but.... a little heavier than i drew it in (like the one on top of his head):

I planned to do three configurations: Light, Commander (with some sort of goggles and a on-hand computer) and Heavy.

One thing that dear russian aa doesn't like the name of it. Ivan is a russian name, and i don't think that russians are ever going to look like that.

Ah even better then, very nice! By all means disregard my remarks then.

That amount of variation should hopefully be enough to have the model considered for inclusion in the game. I shall try to find someone of the dev team who can shed some more light on that.

The name could obviously be changed to something that sounds nice but means nothing.

A few more details to the helmet (even the light version), right now it is a bit plain, either texture wise or if you add a few cubes, cylinders or toruses and just place them in a good way and it can work.
However, keep the model without the head as well cause that's how I'd like to play him. So I guess there would be 4 different versions of him.

Ivan is the name of the guy who created this model in the first place. This model was meant to replace the existing Nexus model, but then the game changed name and all that, not sure what happened to that model so now it doesn't have to replace anything, it can be it's own group. So you can come up with whatever names for this character the community would want.

I planned to do three configurations: Light, Commander (with some sort of goggles and a on-hand computer) and Heavy.

One thing that dear russian aa doesn't like the name of it. Ivan is a russian name, and i don't think that russians are ever going to look like that.

Metro 2033?

But really it's up to you if you want to change the name. I think those configurations will be good.

Yes, definitely keep the model without helmet too