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Duel Map Suggestions

#1
As you all know I'm still pretty new to Xonotic, but I did notice the game could use finishing or these new maps:

Campgrounds - Obviously scaled for Xonotic with added ramps and what not.

Toxicity - Finish the map, add some textures, add some ramps.

Lost World - Would make a fantastic duel map if it was finished and added a portal on the bottom of the map like in Q3/QL.

Use and Abuse - Not sure how it would play out in Xonotic, maybe not as well as in CPM but it would be worth a try if someone developed it and see how it ran.

Furious Heights - Again, I don't know how it would play out, but it would honestly be worth a shot to see how it would play in Xonotic.
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#2
Is this a request or you plan to do it?
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#3
The top 3 exist (actually Furious as well), Campgrounds and Lost World don't fit into the game.

Also: Fuck Quake maps.
We need originals. Even if Quake steals them. ;D
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#4
I largely second Mirio, with the exception of Lost World. I'd love to play that map in Xonotic!
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#5
(03-25-2014, 09:09 AM)Antibody Wrote: I largely second Mirio, with the exception of Lost World. I'd love to play that map in Xonotic!

It might work better when we have the LG.
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#6
For me, this is sort of like copying a photograph with a drawing and then submitting it to an art contest - technically, it's your work, but it's 100 percent someone else's really and you know it. It was made differently too (in the same way these maps are made for other games) and much rather make something that is 100 percent yours.

No thanks. A complete waste of my time; i already know how these maps play in other games, i'm not interested in twisting them around in a desperate attempt to get them to work in our game just because you recognize the name of the map from another game and think "because it works well there, it should work just as well here!"

I learn nothing from that. I'm much more optimistic and dedicated, if not confident, about improving my OWN skills at producing original content that people enjoy because it is MINE, not because it has a name on it from another game's work.

And also, it gives people not the best feeling about the originality and creativity behind a game if you come into a server and all you are playing is clones of content of other games, don't you think?
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#7
(03-25-2014, 02:44 PM)fa1nt Wrote: For me, this is sort of like copying a photograph with a drawing and then submitting it to an art contest - technically, it's your work, but it's 100 percent someone else's really and you know it. It was made differently too (in the same way these maps are made for other games) and much rather make something that is 100 percent yours.

What contest? People make and play Xonotic just to have fun!

(03-25-2014, 02:44 PM)fa1nt Wrote: I learn nothing from that. I'm much more optimistic and dedicated, if not confident, about improving my OWN skills at producing original content that people enjoy because it is MINE, not because it has a name on it from another game's work.

If a map design is great, why not keep the fun in future games? Wouldn't the original creativity be lost if no remakes would be made for maps such as hub? Why not take what's good and make it even better, instead of creating a half-good map?

(03-25-2014, 02:44 PM)fa1nt Wrote: And also, it gives people not the best feeling about the originality and creativity behind a game if you come into a server and all you are playing is clones of content of other games, don't you think?

Who do you think gives a shit if there's Quake maps in a Quake-like game? Antibody even highlighted it on the website as a feature ("Maps, from classic to new!", see image slideshow at homepage).
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#8
(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: What contest? People make and play Xonotic just to have fun!

The very point of a metaphor is that it is not literal.


(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: If a map design is great, why not keep the fun in future games? Wouldn't the original creativity be lost if no remakes would be made for maps such as hub? Why not take what's good and make it even better, instead of creating a half-good map?

You'll note i never said anything negatory about copying/remaking maps in it of themselves (except for the fact i learn nothing, which is true simply by the nature of the action). I simply said how original content is better, and it is.

(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: Who do you think gives a shit if there's Quake maps in a Quake-like game? Antibody even highlighted it on the website as a feature ("Maps, from classic to new!", see image slideshow at homepage).

Whether xonotic is quake-like is moot, and reference to general authority is a poor defense. And again, i never said there was anything inherently bad about porting, just mentioned how it's not so good of an idea for xonotic as is original content.
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#9
(03-25-2014, 05:35 PM)fa1nt Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: If a map design is great, why not keep the fun in future games? Wouldn't the original creativity be lost if no remakes would be made for maps such as hub? Why not take what's good and make it even better, instead of creating a half-good map?

You'll note i never said anything negatory about copying/remaking maps in it of themselves (except for the fact i learn nothing, which is true simply by the nature of the action). I simply said how original content is better, and it is.

Original content is hardly better, if you check some of the popular maps such as Stormkeep or Finalrage you got yourself a counter-example. These maps are from Nexuiz and have been developed by different mappers throughout time. And the point of learning, I would actually argue you learn more by remaking a map, you learn what the key points are that makes a good map.

(03-25-2014, 05:35 PM)fa1nt Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: Who do you think gives a shit if there's Quake maps in a Quake-like game? Antibody even highlighted it on the website as a feature ("Maps, from classic to new!", see image slideshow at homepage).

Whether xonotic is quake-like is moot, and reference to general authority is a poor defense. And again, i never said there was anything inherently bad about porting, just mentioned how it's not so good of an idea for xonotic as is original content.

If copying maps from Quake or UT or whatever results in better maps and a funnier game I wouldn't mind. Of course I would like to see new maps too. This discussion is worthless anyway since it's all up to the mapper to decide what to contribute.
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#10
I think you both have valid points, on the one hand it's no use to try to force concepts that work in other games into Xonotic gameplay, and just copying other game's content would turn Xonotic into something very unoriginal, clone-like.

But on the other hand it would also be stupid not to learn and benefit from concepts that worked in other games. If concepts that proved to work well somewhere else also perform in Xonotic, then there is no reason to reject them simply due to not being original.

With that being said I would encourage any mapper to put some creative work of his/her own into any remake and not to just copy the bsp file and scale it a bit (I believe that would apply to hub?). Take the original Soylent for example, while the layout remaind almost unchanged, the map Xoylent is one of the best remakes Xonotic has ever seen. I consider well made remakes that go well with Xonotic gameplay equally valuable as quality new content.
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#11
(03-26-2014, 02:07 AM)machine! Wrote: Original content is hardly better, if you check some of the popular maps such as Stormkeep or Finalrage you got yourself a counter-example. These maps are from Nexuiz and have been developed by different mappers throughout time. And the point of learning, I would actually argue you learn more by remaking a map, you learn what the key points are that makes a good map.

I never promised a bucketload of jaw-droppingly amazing stuff - it's simply possible when you are actually creating new content. The counter-point to those is Fuse. I already know what makes a good map; i analyze maps as i play them regardless of whether i created them or not. it's a good practice, and i find it fun. I'm wierd.

(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: If copying maps from Quake or UT or whatever results in better maps and a funnier game I wouldn't mind. Of course I would like to see new maps too. This discussion is worthless anyway since it's all up to the mapper to decide what to contribute.

A well-done remake/revamp/retex of something will never go amiss, and even though i predict poor gameplay through logical thought process sometimes, i would be happy to be proved wrong. If people enjoy it, they will play it.

I am a mapper of quite a few years, and i voiced my opinion, which outlines my personal view and plan for my venture into xonotic mapping in the coming months. I'm glad we agree somewhat - the main points i was trying to make in the original post still stand. No discussion is worthless Smile
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#12
(03-24-2014, 02:56 PM)nvz Wrote: Campgrounds
Toxicity
Lost World
Use and Abuse
Furious Heights
All of these can be found in Xonotic already and Campgrounds is the only one properly remade iirc. These are great maps, but I'm perfectly happy as long as we have Fuse and cpm22 Big Grin
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#13
(03-26-2014, 05:10 PM)fa1nt Wrote:
(03-26-2014, 02:07 AM)machine! Wrote: Original content is hardly better, if you check some of the popular maps such as Stormkeep or Finalrage you got yourself a counter-example. These maps are from Nexuiz and have been developed by different mappers throughout time. And the point of learning, I would actually argue you learn more by remaking a map, you learn what the key points are that makes a good map.

I never promised a bucketload of jaw-droppingly amazing stuff - it's simply possible when you are actually creating new content. The counter-point to those is Fuse. I already know what makes a good map; i analyze maps as i play them regardless of whether i created them or not. it's a good practice, and i find it fun. I'm wierd.

Great, then we agree on something. Wink

(03-26-2014, 05:10 PM)fa1nt Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 04:10 PM)machine! Wrote: If copying maps from Quake or UT or whatever results in better maps and a funnier game I wouldn't mind. Of course I would like to see new maps too. This discussion is worthless anyway since it's all up to the mapper to decide what to contribute.

A well-done remake/revamp/retex of something will never go amiss, and even though i predict poor gameplay through logical thought process sometimes, i would be happy to be proved wrong. If people enjoy it, they will play it.

Stormkeep, finalrage, hub, bloodrun, toxcicity.... (list goes on).
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#14
I do agree that the game is in need of original maps more than Quake/UT remakes. This is a Quake style movement gsme, so why not suggest some remakes? As long as they play just as well as the other top tier maps, why not play them? I personally think if Toxicity is remade from scratch to fit Xonotic's movement and weapon balance it would be a great map.

But in reality, I DO think TDM & CTF maps are in more dire need than Duel maps. I personally believe Xon has around 8 to 9 great all around duel maps for the players to master. I've been only playing 2 weeks and it will take me around 8 months to completely master 4 to 5 maps to play top tier level(especially with 120 plus ping against the euros).
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#15
There is a rescaled version of campgrounds on smb 1v1
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#16
I don't think people duel on campgrounds very much in Xonotic, at least in Europe. I've tried to enjoy duels in it few times and every time it just gives me that fun-pub-map vibe. Despite it's reputation and age it's not really all THAT great map, it doesn't have any interesting characteristics besides everyone knowing how to play it, very overrated map in my opinion.
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#17
Be thankful you got TONS of choices vs what the vehicle players/server do Tongue
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#18
Someone please make Cure, Almost Lost and Silence from Quake.

Also: Quake maps are the shit Big Grin
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#19
SPLAT: Why not asking cityy for remaking his map for Xonotic? He has done allready 2 maps fox Xonotic in the past, right? Anyway, why bothering if "Quake maps are the shit"?
I am 100% for creating new maps for Xonotic though. We don't have so many original maps to be honest: Stormkeep is from Nexuiz, so the Warfare and Final_rage (even Xoylent has layout from Nexuiz) The same goes to Strenght and a couple of others. It's not easy to create completly new, unique map. Its also risky to work hard on something new only to find out that in the end the gameplay sucks. It would be nice to see mapping contest in Xonotic again.
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#20
Cure is a nice map, but if it's gonna be Xonoticed, it's gonna need to have more trick/ramp jumps. Maybe have similar armor scheme as in Xonotic's fuse; no MA, two 50s and few 25s and 5s there and there. Although I would be interested seeing Cityy finish his Opium and maybe create something new as well, his maps play like a motherfucker!

(04-08-2014, 08:25 AM)Justin Wrote: Warfare
Originally from Quake3 community: http://lvlworld.com/review/id:1864
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#21
(04-08-2014, 03:53 PM)Smilecythe Wrote: Cure is a nice map,....

Never heard about - maybe you have a link to cure Antero?

@ nvz
Most maps you talkin about you.ll find on Prophets server.

GreetZ Su
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#22
(04-10-2014, 09:38 AM)-maniac|Su- Wrote: Never heard about - maybe you have a link to cure Antero?

Here is a video of cure. I would agree with Smilecythe that I don't think that out of the box that it'd be optimal for Xonotic. That being said, can we just stop talking about Quake maps all together or at least talk about Quake maps to form inspiration for new maps, like taking certain parts of other maps and remixing them all up and forming something together, using unique content as an adhesive when we slap them all up into one... Or better yet just come up with something completely new.
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