Considering switching distros

Hi,

I'm getting fed up with Ubuntu (who isn't?), and am considering switching distros. I'd like to ask you for advice. What I'm looking for is as follows:
* It should be relatively easy to install and configure
* Performance
* Customizability
* Community support
* Up-to-date repositories
* Extensive hardware support with stock nVidia drivers available
* Possibly gaming?

I'd like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

How exactly does Ubuntu limit you?

There's a wide variety of linux distributions available, and I have tested only a very few. Currently my distribution of choice is Arch Linux, and to give you a short impression about this distro I'll try to categorize it following your bullet points:

* It should be relatively easy to install and configure -> The installation process is somewhat more painful than with Ubuntu, as you'll be installing it from the command line most of the time. BUT the installation process is documented in detail and it worked like charm for me with the benefit of actually getting to know my system a lot better in the process.

* Performance -> Arch is a rolling release, so you'll get newest kernels and software updates rather quickly. Other than that, performance mainly depends on how you set up your system.

* Customizability -> You'll find yourself configuring everything in the process of installing what you need, as after installation you'll be left with a working, but rather naked system. So you are rather free to choose what you actually would like to have on your system.

* Community support -> I found the wiki to be astonishingly helpful, it is constantly updated and very detailed. It answered most of the questions that I had during setup (how to install graphical environment, which window manager to pick, sound system...). Additionally, the forums seem to be a good place to ask for help.

* Up-to-date repositories -> Being a rolling release, Arch does not depend on "release dates" like Ubuntu. Packages get updated all the time, some very quickly upon release of the source, some lag a bit behind (like shotwell is still at release date from April this year, I think, even though 13.1 has been released this month). In any case you won't have to wait for a fixed date like with Ubuntu to get major updates/upgrades. Apart from the official repositories there is also the user maintained "AUR", which contains even more up-to-date packages such as development versions you'll be able to automatically compile yourself.

* Extensive hardware support with stock nVidia drivers available -> You can use the free or the proprietary nvidia drivers with Arch Linux, as you like. Installation of both is rather well documented in the wiki.

* Possibly gaming? -> Well you can install and run games on it, I'm playing Xonotic on my installation. Not sure what you meant with that point.

Let's see what others say about their distributions :o)

Lubuntu

Arch Linux.

OpenSUSE fits all your points with additional bonus of being really stable - it's a base for an enterprise distro. Well, maybe it's not really "cutting edge new" (like debian sid or arch), but it's reasonably fresh (like debian testing). I use this distro daily at work and home, if you pick it I can help you out if you'd have any questions.

detailed:
* It should be relatively easy to install and configure - as easy to install as fedora, mandriva, etc, medium skill level, later config is done in desktop specific tools (e.g. kde system settings) and in distro specific tool called yast, yast is also available on the command line, for ppl coming from debian a throwback might be that manually editing config files is not recommended
* Performance - depends on the desktop of choice, I run kde and it's blazing fast imo
* Customizability - a single dvd for kde, gnome, xfce, lxde desktops and a server, custom package pick - mix whatever you like ;-)
* Community support - never really needed support, there's a great wiki documentation and forums
* Up-to-date repositories - the main repo is a few months back (like debian testing), various additional and custom repos exist with newer software
* Extensive hardware support with stock nVidia drivers available - there are additional repos with nvidia and amd drivers, easy to install, the base contains only free drivers
* Possibly gaming? - games run ok, there's good level of 32bit compatibility on the 64bit version so even 32bit games run good, audio is through pulseaudio, but it's greatly integrated and works awesomely fine (unlike on ubuntu)

(The above is about the release based version, not the rolling one.)

audio is through pulseaudio

pulseaudio

Unless you can tell me that I can run JACK side-by-side (preferably being able to route PA's output into JACK) and how to do it.

Tell us what you miss from Ubuntu and we can hopefully guide you to one, there is like over 100 distros but only 10 or so is really useful. I always recommend to check http://gnu.org/distros but you'll probably want something less free with better driver support.

EDIT: Note that the distro is not important, distros are basically pre-packaged GNU/Linux the only thing that makes them different is the packages they've decided to include and if there repos are big so you don't have to go find installers on the web like in Windows.

EDIT2: Many people seem to recommend Arch Linux, it's an excellent distro but I don't recommend it for you...

* It should be relatively easy to install and configure

Arch Linux's live cd doesn't provide a installer at the moment, yoyu have to manually use fdisk and mkfs to format the disk, mount it, copy the files using the pacstrap script and then chroot and manually configure the system. Arch Linux is configured using text-files and I do not call that easy configuration. I use Arch Linux myself and it's great, but it's not for people who want an operating-system "that just works".

Well, Minkovsky, you´re describing a distro which I want to use too but sadly doesn´t exist. You won´t find a distro which is easy to configure/install and has lots of customisation. I´m learning to use Gentoo at the the moment, which is THE distro for customisation but isn´t really meant for beginners. Arch Linux uses a similar philosophy but is a bit less customisable though it "looks" and "feels" (at least lots of people say so) more minimalist. BUT I made the experience that the community of Arch Linux is not so helpful and friendly as the community of Gentoo is.
At last you have to find out for yourself. That´s just the typical process of discovering Linux. In the end you´ll probably will uses some the non GUIed installation Linuxes because they do more what you want. It´s a tough task but it is worth it and you´ll learn a lot.

My personal advice: Gentoo

Well, Minkovsky, you´re describing a distro which I want to use too but sadly doesn´t exist. You won´t find a distro which is easy to configure/install and has lots of customisation. I´m learning to use Gentoo at the the moment, which is THE distro for customisation but isn´t really meant for beginners. Arch Linux uses a similar philosophy but is a bit less customisable though it "looks" and "feels" (at least lots of people say so) more minimalist. BUT I made the experience that the community of Arch Linux is not so helpful and friendly as the community of Gentoo is.
At last you have to find out for yourself. That´s just the typical process of discovering Linux. In the end you´ll probably will uses some the non GUIed installation Linuxes because they do more what you want. It´s a tough task but it is worth it and you´ll learn a lot.

My personal advice: Gentoo

Ubuntu have exactly the same customization that all other distros has, it's just harder since there is no GUI tools by default in Gentoo. BTW Gentoo compiles every package from source which sometimes results in wierd bugs that a beginner/casual user can't solve.

audio is through pulseaudio

pulseaudio

NO
Unless you can tell me that I can run JACK side-by-side (preferably being able to route PA's output into JACK) and how to do it.

Well, that's harsh... anyway, I'm not familiar with jack, but there's something called pulseaudio-module-jack which is supposed to add jack support into pulseaudio. You can also always not use pulseaudio at all and use alsa instead, it's not like pulseaudio if forced or anything, switch an option in yast and it's gone.

on a side note: I also hated pulseaudio back when I was on (k)ubuntu, but suse made me change my mind about it.

* It should be relatively easy to install and configure

Ubuntu is easy to install and have GUI tools by default to change wallpaper and such iirc, also you can easily install other GUI configuration tools from the repos.

* Performance

Hmm, you can disable daemons you don't use and also maybe switch to an lighter window manager than the default one. You can always compile your own Linux too, you can use a faster compression and I think you can tweak it for faster boot too.

* Customizability

Well, you can customize exactly as much as in any other distro, in Ubuntus repos there is even GUI tools for this iirc.

* Community support

Well, I'm not sure how Ubuntu's community is, but it can't be worse than YouTube!

* Up-to-date repositories

Ofc Ubuntu's repo ain't cutting-edge, but you can always use the testing repo.

* Extensive hardware support with stock nVidia drivers available

Pretty sure Ubuntu support it since you run it now! xD

* Possibly gaming?

Hmm, I'm sure Ubuntu don't restrict you from using all games available for GNU/Linux and UNIX-like operating systems.

This thread might be relevant:

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=3361

This thread might be relevant:

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=3361

If you're a casual computer user; Ubuntu or Debian, if you want to learn GNU/Linux; LFS, if you just want a good overall distro and you're not afraid of pure UNIX-like experience; Arch Linux. Distro doesn't matter, what you do with it does.

Well, Minkovsky, you´re describing a distro which I want to use too but sadly doesn´t exist. You won´t find a distro which is easy to configure/install and has lots of customisation. I´m learning to use Gentoo at the the moment, which is THE distro for customisation but isn´t really meant for beginners. Arch Linux uses a similar philosophy but is a bit less customisable though it "looks" and "feels" (at least lots of people say so) more minimalist. BUT I made the experience that the community of Arch Linux is not so helpful and friendly as the community of Gentoo is.
At last you have to find out for yourself. That´s just the typical process of discovering Linux. In the end you´ll probably will uses some the non GUIed installation Linuxes because they do more what you want. It´s a tough task but it is worth it and you´ll learn a lot.

My personal advice: Gentoo

Ubuntu have exactly the same customization that all other distros has, it's just harder since there is no GUI tools by default in Gentoo. BTW Gentoo compiles every package from source which sometimes results in wierd bugs that a beginner/casual user can't solve.

That´s right, it´s anything than beginner friendly. Concerning customisation: Ubuntu and all the other beginner distros install modules and drivers for lots of things which you don´t need. This makes your install fat and performance is going down. Custumisation, as concerned to distros, isn´t about installing special apps or tweaking your themes, it´s about how and what you install in your base system!

That´s right, it´s anything than beginner friendly. Concerning customisation: Ubuntu and all the other beginner distros install modules and drivers for lots of things which you don´t need. This makes your install fat and performance is going down. Custumisation, as concerned to distros, isn´t about installing special apps or tweaking your themes, it´s about how and what you install in your base system!

Of course Ubuntu ain't as slim and clean as Crux Linux , but it's pretty much the same as any other distribution, if you don't want the driver and kernel modules that comes with Ubuntu's Linux you can compile your own Linux, it's the same with all other distributions. Ubuntu ain't a "beginners distro" it's a general purpose GNU/Linux distribution as many other of the distros are.

The point I'm trying to say is that distro doesn't really matter, and if you want to know more about other distribution then try them out, either live cd, virtual machine or fresh install. You can take Knoppix live CD and then download all Ubuntu's packages and install Ubuntu instead, you can use Ubuntu's live cd and install Gentoo etc. etc. You get what I mean?

Ubuntu minimal install.
it's like arch
but not rolling release
but with steam support

pulseaudio-module-jack

If that works, I'll probably take a look at suse.

on a side note: I also hated pulseaudio back when I was on (k)ubuntu, but suse made me change my mind about it.

Sounds promising.

Gentoo sounds... weird. I don't like the idea of everything being compiled from source.

I tried Arch on a VM, but somehow, following the tutorial, the /dev/sda3 I created for /home was read-only, which is something I don't want to happen when I install. Because of that I'll probably use Ubuntu Live to configure partitions and stuff.

I tried Arch on a VM, but somehow, following the tutorial, the /dev/sda3 I created for /home was read-only, which is something I don't want to happen when I install. Because of that I'll probably use Ubuntu Live to configure partitions and stuff.

Tell me what setup you want to have and I'll tell you how you can do it with fdisk!

---

Ubuntu minimal install.
it's like arch
but not rolling release
but with steam support

Hmm, didn't know steam was available yet, and I also though it not was only for Ubuntu as there blog said....

I tried Arch on a VM, but somehow, following the tutorial, the /dev/sda3 I created for /home was read-only, which is something I don't want to happen when I install. Because of that I'll probably use Ubuntu Live to configure partitions and stuff.

Tell me what setup you want to have and I'll tell you how you can do it with fdisk!

Ideally, I'd like to get a small-to-medium SSD (128G or so) to put boot, swap and root partitions on, and use my main 500GB drive for /home. However, I do not have it yet (intend on getting it relatively soon-ish). Also, I *will* need the 2 MB BIOS boot partition thingy since I'd like to use GRUB and GPT.

I'd like to try getting it to work on my netbook (~250GB space) → GPT + GRUB; 80GB for root, 4GB for swap, rest for /home.

EDIT: Note that the distro is not important, distros are basically pre-packaged GNU/Linux the only thing that makes them different is the packages they've decided to include and if there repos are big so you don't have to go find installers on the web like in Windows.

No. They differ by their choice of init system (and therefore how their core config files are organized), maybe the bootloader they use by default, their installer and package management system, whether they are binary- or source-based, what patches are included in the packages, their release model, community, documentation, configuration tools, philosophy...

Exherbo is not Ubuntu.

Ubuntu have exactly the same customization that all other distros has, it's just harder since there is no GUI tools by default in Gentoo. BTW Gentoo compiles every package from source which sometimes results in wierd bugs that a beginner/casual user can't solve.

I'm not so sure. Doesn't ubuntu have ubuntu-specific configuration tools? I don't really use that at all so I'm not up to date on it, but I've seen distros with very specific config tools.

I use mint (kde) ... its based on ubuntu ... but its not ubuntu :O

works fine for me (only issues I am having are pulse audio's fault ...)

No. They differ by their choice of init system (and therefore how their core config files are organized), maybe the bootloader they use by default, their installer and package management system, whether they are binary- or source-based, what patches are included in the packages, their release model, community, documentation, configuration tools, philosophy...

Of course, but what I mean was at a bit.... higher/newbier level, what init system and bootloader might concern to us, but casual users don't even know what that is, package manager is the same thing, it's rather the repos that matters to casual users. Anyway, I'll do a paper about this topic if I don't find any good one online.

Ubuntu have exactly the same customization that all other distros has, it's just harder since there is no GUI tools by default in Gentoo. BTW Gentoo compiles every package from source which sometimes results in wierd bugs that a beginner/casual user can't solve.

I'm not so sure. Doesn't ubuntu have ubuntu-specific configuration tools? I don't really use that at all so I'm not up to date on it, but I've seen distros with very specific config tools.

Ubuntu is based on Debian, it might happen that Debian got specific configuration tools, but this are probably no concerns of a casual user. I think the tool you might talking about can be debconf(package not conferance). There is no big difference between the distros at casual level, but I may be wrong, he maybe wants to get deeper into GNU/Linux, if so, I highly recommend the Linux From Scratch book, it tells you how to setup your completely own GNU/Linux system.

---

Ideally, I'd like to get a small-to-medium SSD (128G or so) to put boot, swap and root partitions on, and use my main 500GB drive for /home. However, I do not have it yet (intend on getting it relatively soon-ish). Also, I *will* need the 2 MB BIOS boot partition thingy since I'd like to use GRUB and GPT.

I'd like to try getting it to work on my netbook (~250GB space) → GPT + GRUB; 80GB for root, 4GB for swap, rest for /home.

Code:

$ fdisk /dev/(hda or sda)
fdisk > o
fdisk > n
p
1
*enter*
amount of MB for boot
fdisk > a
1
fdisk > n
p
2
*enter*
amount of MB for swap
fdisk > t
2
82
fdisk > n
p
3
*enter*
*enter*
fdisk > n
p
4
*enter*
*enter*
fdisk > w
$ mkfs.(fs of choice) /dev/sda1
$ mkswap /dev/sda2
$ swapon /dev/sda2 #optional, just if you want to use it directly
$ mkfs.(fs of choice) /dev/sda3
$ mkfs.(fs of choice) /dev/sda4
$ mount /dev/sda3 /mnt
$ mkdir /mnt/boot /mnt/home
$ mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot
$ mount /dev/sda4 /mnt/home

The GPT thing I have never done, please consult your prefered search engine for that.

Hmm, didn't know steam was available yet, and I also though it not was only for Ubuntu as there blog said....

it will be out in a few months and they're only supporting Ubuntu to start with.
other distro support might be added but it will take a while
non-mainstream distros will probably be very slow to gain support.

it will be out in a few months and they're only supporting Ubuntu to start with.
other distro support might be added but it will take a while
non-mainstream distros will probably be very slow to gain support.

Why wouldn't it work on other distros out-of-the-box? Do you mean that they only will provide a Ubuntu .deb or that is no chance getting it running on for example Arch Linux?