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Close quarters combat argument: Xonotic vs Quake

#1
Question 
My friend and I are new to both Xonotic and Quake. He says he likes Quake Live more than Xonotic because the close range battles are deeper. He feels the juggling in Xonotic breaks the close range battles because it turns into both players juggling with the mortar and quick-switching to the nex and rockets repeatedly, whereas Quake Live makes better use of all the weapons.

I don't think either one of us is really experienced enough to have an opinion on this yet, but I do watch pro duels for both games on youtube and basically see the only real difference between the 2 games is the lightening gun. It seems like every QL close range battle is usually just lightening guns and the players rapidly side-stepping. And there's no doubt that the stacked player will come out on top nearly every time in a situation like that.

What do the more experienced player think?

I read somewhere(by C. Brutal) that a lightening gun was going to be added in version 1.0. Is this still the goal, and how would that change the game?


edit: WTF is this an April fool's joke? All the periods are question marks. lol
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#2
Yep, april fools joke, your punctuation will be fine tomorrow Wink
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#3
In Xonotic close combat isn't just nex/mortar. Shotgun slapping, the eletro combo, crylink and RL can all do a lot of damage in close range, when you use them good.
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#4
Don't forget preloaded hagar. Personally I don't use nex/mortar/rl combo rapid switching, to me it feels horribly cheap/calculated/not really fun.
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#5
The loaded hagar is the best possible shotgun, without a doubt, more damage can't be dealth with any other weapon in one shot. But in combat you don't have the time to load it, you have to do that while running around, searching for your enemy.
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#6
At QL, you can use both LG or RL (or why not SG) at close range. The balance is fine because based on a consistent risk/gain tradeoff.
If you choose LG, you'll get at least a minimum of damage even if your aim is not prefect.
If you use RL, you can possibly be rewarded by a huge damage, but you can also get nothing if you shot in void.

To me, close combats at xonotic are flawned because of the cunjunction of: short weap switch time AND weak push force on a hit AND mortar/triggered RL are devastating at close ranges.

Also, interestingly, note that those xonotic videos of pros don't illustrate much that close range combat problem, probably because they kow better than the average Joe how to wisely manage the interdistance from other opponents.
Outside of that pro's level, close combat are endless and pretty boring, i would say.

PS: fyi, my post doesn't use any question mark Smile
Fat.bot.Slim
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#7
The thing is that the RL/Mortar/Nex combo is powerful and relatively easy to use. BUT, that doesn´t mean other weapons are weak! The Crylink is actually very strong if you hit your opponent with it in close range. The MG is similar to the lightning gun in Quake: If your aim is good then this weapon can be badass! The Shotgun can do extremely high damage when you´re directly in front of your enemy. The Electro combo is easy to use, deals high (splash) damage and you´ll mostly hit something with it (but it takes some more time to fire the combo). The Hagar is difficult to master: When you aim right with it, it can be very brutal (I hate the Hagar, think it´s overpowered Tongue ). The laser is the "tool". You can push opponents up in the air to hit them more easily and it´s also the best speed and height gaining weapon. So...

Rocketlauncher: cool weapon, needs some practise to guide the rockets and let them explode but anyway very powerful
Nex: good aim is everything for this weapon
Mortar: just epic Big Grin, good for every situation, deals high damage... and... AIRSHOT!!! Big Grin
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#8
Do you guys think a lightening gun will make close combat better?
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#9
(04-01-2012, 07:19 PM)W4RP1G Wrote: Do you guys think a lightening gun will make close combat better?
I think weapons are at a fairly stable state now so doubt that it should make a major difference. If it did make a big difference then it probably wouldn't be so good as the most likely thing that happens if it is too different is unbalancing the game.
I'm at least a reasonably tolerable person to be around - Narcopic
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#10
I predict arc cannon will do everything mg already does in cqb, only better.
Quote:The loaded hagar is the best possible shotgun, without a doubt, more damage can't be dealth with any other weapon in one shot. But in combat you don't have the time to load it, you have to do that while running around, searching for your enemy.

If missed, or hit doesn't kill enemy, you can either disappear from view to preload again or switch to primary. Of course high damage per shot must come with caveats.
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#11
(04-01-2012, 04:16 PM)Rage_ATWM Wrote: At QL, you can use both LG or RL (or why not SG) at close range. The balance is fine because based on a consistent risk/gain tradeoff.
If you choose LG, you'll get at least a minimum of damage even if your aim is not prefect.
If you use RL, you can possibly be rewarded by a huge damage, but you can also get nothing if you shot in void.
It's the other way round. Everybody should be able to get about 50dps with the RL's splash damage. Just shoot at the enemy's feet. LG is hard to use and requires aim. Average players get about 30-35% accuracy. With 140dps this yields about 50dps, like RL. Once your accuracy gets over 40% (which takes months of practice) you have an advantage by using LG. The strongest weapon is the plasma gun with 200dps, but since it's not hitscan it's very hard to use and most people only use it for spamming doorways.

In Xonotic the machine gun has high dps. A LG in Xonotic would just be the MG with different graphics.
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#12
It would NOT just be the mg with different graphics. Since everyone is forgetting you can use the machinegun mid-long range. Really, I think your going to notice a huge difference if it get's removed completely, which is why I can't see why we can't have the MG (Chaingun idea) and Arc Cannon (LG). It's going to cause some issue with mid-range combat, I often use the mg at mid-range, it's going to change the game considerably if it's removed from the core weapons.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#13
Oversimplifying the art of lg aim? 40+% lg in a couple of months?
[Image: yao-ming-meme.jpg]

btw, lg has pushback and slows down the opponent.. feels totally different than mg
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#14
mortar vs mortar close combat in medium sized room was best fun you could have in nexuiz, but ppl often bring nexgun to fight and ruin it, i love that you not only have to predict your nade trajectory but also where is your enemy flying from your previous shot and also when you are flying from enemy hit Smile
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#15
I've played both Xonotic and Quake series for some time now and I've come to notice there's lots of weapons in Xonotic I rarely use or even pickup. That's because some of the weapons can be used for the same main purpose, it's about picking up what you can use more effectively for different situations. When you have collected all of the weapons, you don't have use all of them. The combo I'm most familiar with is Mortar, RL & Nex for isntance (surprise) and quite often these combos vary with other people. Some people change their combo to counter somebody else's combo more effectively. Deathmatch and Duel especially are constant clashing and strategy between weapon combos. In Quake series the use of weapons isn't this complicated. And I hate LG.
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