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[DM] Darkzone [FINAL]

#26
This thread is a little frustrating to read. You talk about Aggressor and other duel maps as if they've been around forever.. What about before Aggressor was ever created? What would the duelists do back then?

There is a reason why these maps are played consistently.. they are really friggin good! If you are willing to accept feedback from others then I see no reason why a new map cant get some play time.
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#27
so, what you're saying is that no one will ever play new maps.
Interesting. Future will say.

Btw, my remarks didn't address 1v1. I was talking about public DM.
And, imo (again, I may be wrong. If someone has stats, could be intesresting), the map is quite rarely played.
So it seems that there is not much to loose in trying to change something in this map.
Maybe if you "fucking hate this" and then don't want to take this action, someone else could.
Fat.bot.Slim
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#28
(04-25-2011, 08:35 AM)Revenant Wrote: There is a reason why these maps are played consistently.. they are really friggin good! If you are willing to accept feedback from others then I see no reason why a new map cant get some play time.

Take bloodrage as an example. I optimized it as far as i could, then tested it in a few 1on1s with different players, watched other while they play a 1on1. At the end i got feedback from like 10 different players. i made the changes, showed them the new map. we played a bit and everyone agreed this map is great for 1on1s. As a next step it went up on a few 1on1 server and then nothing happend. No one actually played it.
Then thyr4ne and s0rk started a 1on1 cup and they also added bloodrage.
It was only played once and only because i chose. Compared to that nearly every match contained aggressor and soylent. Thats where i learned, people only focus on one map they like. If the good player only focus on one or two maps, more and more player start to play this map too, because they want to beat the good player.
When new player start with the game they wont get around these map, because there are always which will play this map. Its a drastic selection
of maps and new map nearly wont make unless they become official. The leason you sooner or later have to learn as a mapper.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#29
Well this game is still in development, why dont you set your goal to having a map included in the official releases?
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#30
It's fine, I don't think there's need for an argument, sorry for starting this. I guess I was mostly annoyed because I had plans to do a remake, but now it would be retarded if I did one, we'd have 12 darkzone versions. So I just tried to give suggestions to how I would have done it but it's not happening, The End.
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#31
[Image: x1hlqo43aj0jkjebmsz_thumb.jpg][Image: 7jho5tuiycs2beucldy_thumb.jpg][Image: v8kglym4da1gz917bubm_thumb.jpg]

some new screenshots
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#32
HOLY SHIT. Crazy how this map has evolved, nice work.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#33
Looks quite nice, will need to play it, not sure about the new little nooks and crannies but we'll see.

Cortez, new maps will get played..I never thought bloodrage was that good for 1on1 to be honest which is personally why I never played it, always thought it was too small till you 'changed it'.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#34
(04-27-2011, 08:01 AM)kojn^ Wrote: Cortez, new maps will get played..I never thought bloodrage was that good for 1on1 to be honest which is personally why I never played it, always thought it was too small till you 'changed it'.

thats quiet a good example, people play a map once or twice, if they dont like they go back to the maps they normally play.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#35
(04-24-2011, 03:49 PM)Cortez666 Wrote:
(04-24-2011, 02:54 PM)nifrek Wrote: You are basically saying as long as the map is pretty, who the f*ck cares about gameplay? If you're making a duel map you're obviously aiming at a specific crowd, who definitely care about such things :/
no, my point no matter how good your map is people people wont play it, because there are maps they know already and which are played in 1on1s. Take Nexuiz for example most 1on1s are played on aggressor, soylent and final rage. Thats a sad fact and also the reason why i came to the conclusion you have to like what you make, if some criticizes it then dont bother.

(04-24-2011, 02:54 PM)nifrek Wrote: You did a really good job about item placement with downer, so I thought you would be more open about it.
its decent i wont call it good, because the map design doesnt allow a more suitable item placement, which makes it better.

Who are you referring to when you talk about "people"? I SERIOUSLY hope you aren't talking about the North American community, because if you are, you are very sadly mistaken. One might think I'm about to say something to the effect of "we (NA) play on all sorts of duel maps", but actually it's quite the contrary. We DON'T duel...at all. No one duels. Yep, you heard it from me. The last time I dueled anyone in nexuiz OR xonotic was against nifrek in multiple duels in xonotic, and this was perhaps a month ago. Any duels before then, who the hell knows. All nexuiz is anymore, well, at least for NA, is laggy hoctf games, or 10v10ctf minsta, or maybe, if I'm lucky enough, the occasional clan arena scrim in bc3.

So why am I saying this? Why does it matter? Now is the time to get some good maps made, with proven gameplay, so that way we can have a standard map pool for future tourneys. There's one problem I told mookow about the other night on irc...there hasn't been a balance or physics set that has been set in stone yet. It's hard to make a map when chances are the balance/physics will change on you at any time.

Trying to stay on topic: Darkzone, one of the legendary maps in quakeworld known as dm6, has a reason for why it's so legendary. Of course, the gameplay. Now, I'm not going to say I have experience on this map in quakeworld, since I've played it maybe 5-10 times, but nifrek however came FROM quakeworld. So if you have to take any advice on this specific map from anyone in the forums, I would hope you listen to nifrek. Not only that, keep in mind that nifrek is one of the best nexuiz duelers of all time. So coming from both games, I'm sure he has valuable information to offer. I wouldn't take his word lightly, just like you don't take kojn's word lightly either.

Not trying to start an argument either, just thought I'd point some stuff out. I really appreciate the amount of effort you put into the map, cortez. Looks very nice!

-pcl
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#36
Initial topic is darkzone.
Duels might represent 1% of nexuiz/xonotic games.
Why the hell are we constantly talking about duel in this topic???!!!
The main fact is: darkzone is rarely played in those 99% of non-duel games.
THIS is the starting point.

PS: i do love playing duel. And I'd love playing darkzone in duel.
Here again, let's try to not develop something just for the 10 readers of this post.
Fat.bot.Slim
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#37
nifrek Wrote:You are basically saying as long as the map is pretty, who the f*ck cares about gameplay? If you're making a duel map you're obviously aiming at a specific crowd, who definitely care about such things :/

I dont want to spam OT in here now but actually this is unfortunately fact for some maps. (I dont talk about all maps or maps in general now but there are a few maps which seem to focus on nice graphics instead of layout and gameplay)

Anyway, to contribute here something useful, I think its important to make Darkzone a map which is liked by a lot of players (because of its gameplay, hopefully).
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#38
[Image: tod6ptjkz36hm2w2nov_thumb.jpg]

decals?
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#39
I don't like the 'help' writing, never have to be honest looks out of place on the map imo!

Map looks so much better then the original, seems to be like most xonotic maps at the moment, they all feel 'right' compared to back in nexuiz moving around them etc, stuff feels in scale..this actually looks like it'd be fun on public servers to be honest.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#40
the "help" decal would be more in place if cortez was trying to make the map style into some sort of prison or insane asylum. (which would be kind of cool.)

maybe you could add prison cells off of the side corridors. they would be barred, so it wouldn't change the layout at all, only add a bit of narrative to the level. (something I need to experiment more with)
Master of mysterious geometries

Imgur Gallery
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#41
(04-27-2011, 06:33 PM)theShadow Wrote: the "help" decal would be more in place if cortez was trying to make the map style into some sort of prison or insane asylum. (which would be kind of cool.)

maybe you could add prison cells off of the side corridors. they would be barred, so it wouldn't change the layout at all, only add a bit of narrative to the level. (something I need to experiment more with)

There's an old PSX/Saturn game that pulls of the look I think your talking about quite well. It's called LOADED also known as Blood Factory in Japan. lol it was also banned in Germany.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#42
i think the layout here would fit some sort of prison quite well. A prison with a laboratory that does experiments on prisoners >Smile (that would explain the blue glowy stuff)
Master of mysterious geometries

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#43
New Beta. With some support from SavageX.
there are still somethings left to do. there are also 2 qc errors. i dont know how to fiy them, but they dont affect the gameplay.

[Image: udqw64r8x88vxv28kx_thumb.jpg]

Download link: http://ompldr.org/vOGg5OQ/darkzone_b3.pk3
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#44
Very nice work. I absolutely love those small lava pits - they produce a threatening look and give additional color.
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#45
how does it come I don't have the slime texture
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#46
I guess you need Git or the Dev. release.
[Image: 21.png]
IRC (QuakeNet): #bot.xonotic | #xonotic.pickup | #xonotic | #xonotic.cup
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#47
the only thing I can say is maybe the floor texture could use same variation, like maybe edge trims. (like in the second screenshot, where the floor meets the wall.)

other than that, awesome!
Master of mysterious geometries

Imgur Gallery
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#48
this

is

awesome

also, one of the gears on the wall is rotating the wrong way.
[Image: yvefs9h9qeo45op2ufk0_thumb.jpg]
i'ts the one on the right in this image, iirc. (the gear imbedded in the wall is rotating against the other.)

thats the only problem I found, and it is relatively minor.

other than that, its awesome!
Master of mysterious geometries

Imgur Gallery
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#49
just the axis need to be changed

btw did no one found the easter egg yet?
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#50
Yes I found the cake a while ago, didn't know I was supposed to say anything.
nowego [MLP:FiM]
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