Music style brainstorming

Hello guys, I would like to start brainstorming about the kind of music that we want to have for Xonotic. Our goal is to come up with a list of the things we want (and things we don't) that we can use mainly to achieve artistic consistency and also providing some orientation to artists wanting to contribute.

Please share any thoughts that you have about what Xonotic music should be according to you. Just to keep things organized please let's use this thread for discussing only about music, not sound effects or anything else. For that we will create other threads.

In the section below I will be updating this list.

Style in general
While we don't want to tie us to a specific genre, the music must match the visuals of the game. As it is being discussed on this other thread seems that we are about to use a futuristic ambient for the game, so its more than likely that the kind of music that we want will fit within the Electronic genre.

Track duration
Currently most contributions come in the format of a regular cd track, that is 3, 4 or 5 minutes long. This is currently an issue because the duration of most matches is about 15-20 minutes, that means that one listens to the very same track many times in row, which is kind of boring. For this reason we would like to have longer tracks, as long as this is possible for artists. However tracks longer than 10 or 15 minutes are not advisable as that will increase dramatically the size of the release package. Note that this is a file size size constraint, not a duration one, tracks that are more easily compressed can have a longer duration.

Matching start and ending
In spite of having longer tracks its more than likely that a track gets played at two or more times during a match, for this is important that the end and beginning of the track can be matched without disruptions, giving a sense of continuity.

Complexity
As this game is extremely fast we don't want to have overly complex tracks at the point of being distracting or that one can't even understand while playing (e.g. a mad breakbeat tune)

Variations
Furthermore this game is based a lot on listening, as a way to know if a shot hit or not, or if there is someone nearby picking up items, etc. For this reason we want to avoid abrupt variations in the volume of tracks and/or the abuse of very high pitched sounds.

Suggested Genres
Electronica, Drum and bass, House, Jungle, Breakbit, Fake bit, Techno, Hybrid, Ambient, Experimental, Metal, Hard Techno, Acid Techno/Trance, Dark Trance

Wanted moods
Intense, Trippy, Energetic, Cerebral, Hypnotic, Playful, Ominous, Ambitious, Fast

Unwanted moods
Dramatic, Complex, Clinical, Visceral

Songs we like
Forgotten Tides
Foregone Destruction
Skyward Fire
Botpack 9
Stairs
Rabble Rouser

Regarding duration, 15-20 minutes would be insane. The files for that would be in the range of 20 MB each, which would mean we cannot include that many songs.

However, if we only include few songs, we get the repetition problem again.

I rather suggest a quite broad range, from 3 to 10 minutes.

Preferably, the song should be looped using the LOOP_START vorbis comment which contains the sample ID of where to seek back to. It however is quite hard to do that properly to not cause any clicks... the best known way to achieve that is crossfading:

E.g., you want to loop back from 200s to 17s.

Then, you copy the part from 16s to 17s to a second track, and align it to 200s. A short hearing test should tell you they match. You then perform a crossfade from the original to the copy in the range 199s to 200s, and cut off everything after 200s. After that, set the vorbis tag LOOP_START to 749700 (17 seconds * 44100). Done! In reality, this of course requires very exact position, and you probably won't be able to do this with whole seconds numbers.

As for suggested genres, I want to add whatever genre the music of Unreal Tournament (99) is, and also whatever genre the tracks "sixtyfour", "sixtyfour revisited", "stairs" are. I do not know the genre names well, also, apparently many artists don't either. Instead of suggesting genre names, I'd rather recommend to also suggest example songs of the respective genre so an artist actually knows what you mean

Personally I don't much think there should be a set genre on music outside of it being some form of electronic without any vocals. Electronica, 8 bit, fake bit, techno, hybrid, ambient, experimental, etc. should all be fine (even soothing tracks in some cases) as long as they're used on the right maps. Also there was an interesting idea brought up on another thread that would solve the problem of jokers not putting music on their maps and that is to implement some sort of jukebox function. Actually I have that thread open right now, here's the link: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=253

A few examples of soothing tracks matching extremely fast paced gameplay can be found in the original Unreal and Unreal Tournament. I found Foregone, Course, Skyward, and Botpack 9 to be EXTREMELY well suited for the often chaotic maps they played on.

The Course (Tutorials, Agony)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTnfNtoh...1&index=23

Foregone Destruction (Facing Worlds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNrI6N2jQ...re=related

Skyward Fire (Lava Giant)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bFUNKg0m...re=related

Botpack 9 (Phobos, Viridian Tourney)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gwdsQDwA...re=related

Jokers not putting music in their map? By default, mapinfo selects a random track.

Why not just make all the sounds that are included cycle through once one has finished?

Because I like giving mappers a way to choose the music that fits the map.

As an user option, however, this already can be done in the current engine version. See the music_* cvars.

Also, maybe I will code a feature to prefill one of the music_* playlists with ALL songs that can be found in the cdtracks directory.

Jokers not putting music in their map? By default, mapinfo selects a random track.

In Xonotic or Nexuiz? In Nexuiz when there is no music track on the map I hear no music playing on my kick ass 5.1. It's very depressing in 3 on 3 matches.

Happens only when the mapper intentionally removed the "cdtrack" line from the mapinfo file.

Jokers not putting music in their map? By default, mapinfo selects a random track.

In Xonotic or Nexuiz? In Nexuiz when there is no music track on the map I hear no music playing on my kick ass 5.1. It's very depressing in 3 on 3 matches.

I'd double check this because it could be a bug. Now I can't remember if a random track gets played when the track referenced by the map can't be found.

I've updated the first post with your suggestions.

hi , what if i could produce a little dj set that goes for , say defult map time (what is it again?) but was under 10 meg?

would that be ok?

also i have no style (my mum says i do....), cos i have no idea what im making

so why not class it to just electronica.

:^

hi , what if i could produce a little dj set that goes for , say defult map time (what is it again?) but was under 10 meg?

would that be ok?

also i have no style (my mum says i do....), cos i have no idea what im making

so why not class it to just electronica.

:^

I believe 10mb would be okay, about 10 minutes of audio afaik. It'd nice if you try to use some of the concepts/ideas we were discussing before, that'd help to refine our style a bit more and also see how it feels ingame.

And no doubt its hard to define your style Which is a good thing, as we want to make a genuine game (within the fps genre that is).

I think that blkrbt's songs really fit xonotic.

Quiet
Traveler
Variable (all three here http://www.alienTRAP.org/forum/viewtopic...446#p70446 )

hello.
I have to suggest againsed 8bit music for a graphically advanced FPS game. it would seem very out of place. the best genres I've found to work well with faster paced FPS games are metal, hard techno, drum and bass, IDM, acid techno/trance, dark trance, etc.
here is an example of an acidish drum and bass song I did a long time ago:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7184952

I wont upload the ogg file untill I find the project file (which is on one of my many hard disks. I have to dig around and find it. when I do find it, I will have to request that it be hosted on the Xonotic webspace, as my current webspace that will allow me to direct link is very bandwith limited).
here is an example of some of my metal work: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8983979
I would not suggest this (slower paced) metal for the game, but metal is definately a good option for an FPS game, and this song shows of a tad of my skill on guitar.

Mm.. I prefer more orchestral stuff than techo-style (or similar).

Shattered Horizon's main theme is something I'm looking for. It also fits nice on Xonotic's theme. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZcN_I02WpA However, maybe not so grandiloquent

As conclusion: Orchestra (or orchestra-like) music which fits on space. It's somehow "free" and "relaxing".

Edit: This kind of as a main theme. I think that orchestra stuff doesn't fit in-game...

I think that blkrbt's songs really fit xonotic.

Quiet
Traveler
Variable (all three here http://www.alienTRAP.org/forum/viewtopic...446#p70446 )

Sure, I've contacted him already, he seems to be a bit busy right now but he is looking forward to this project.

About these songs the one I really like is Quiet, a bit playful, seems good for space maps and race maps. Traveler is good but I'd like it to have a less "saturated" bassline. Variable has material, but has too much high pitched noises and its a bit messed up at the ending.

I think that blkrbt's songs really fit xonotic.

Quiet
Traveler
Variable (all three here http://www.alienTRAP.org/forum/viewtopic...446#p70446 )

Sure, I've contacted him already, he seems to be a bit busy right now but he is looking forward to this project.

About these songs the one I really like is Quiet, a bit playful, seems good for space maps and race maps. Traveler is good but I'd like it to have a less "saturated" bassline. Variable has material, but has too much high pitch noises and its a bit messed up at the end.

I can just picture Traveler playing on a snowy mountain type map where there's a good cold atmosphere and a lot of action going on.

hello.
I have to suggest againsed 8bit music for a graphically advanced FPS game. it would seem very out of place. the best genres I've found to work well with faster paced FPS games are metal, hard techno, drum and bass, IDM, acid techno/trance, dark trance, etc.
here is an example of an acidish drum and bass song I did a long time ago:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7184952

I wont upload the ogg file untill I find the project file (which is on one of my many hard disks. I have to dig around and find it. when I do find it, I will have to request that it be hosted on the Xonotic webspace, as my current webspace that will allow me to direct link is very bandwith limited).
here is an example of some of my metal work: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8983979
I would not suggest this (slower paced) metal for the game, but metal is definately a good option for an FPS game, and this song shows of a tad of my skill on guitar.

I agree on everything except IDM, as that could be too complex for hearing ingame. I don't even think about listening Squarepusher or some Aphex Twin discs while playing .. but maybe that's just me.

No problem for the webspace hosting at all, we have a bunch of webservers at hand. You can send it to me and I'll upload it.

About these songs the one I really like is Quiet, a bit playful, seems good for space maps and race maps. Traveler is good but I'd like it to have a less "saturated" bassline. Variable has material, but has too much high pitched noises and its a bit messed up at the ending.

Really? I liked Variable the most of any of them.
It's great to hear that blkrbt could contribute to xonotic, he really has rare talent.

I didn't like the orchestral pieces in Nexuiz - they are very well-made, but I don't think they fitted there good. Instead - some minimalistic, amibental digital noise with one catchy tune for each map I really liked some of those tracks in Nexuiz.

Will there be any repository for music contributors to upload there, and mappers to search theese for good tunes for their maps?

I didn't like the orchestral pieces in Nexuiz - they are very well-made, but I don't think they fitted there good. Instead - some minimalistic, amibental digital noise with one catchy tune for each map I treally liked some of those tracks in Nexuiz.

Will there be any repository for music contributors to upload there, and mappers to search theese for good tunes for their maps?

Depends on the map. Stairs suited Soylent perfectly in my opinion. Starship on the other hand definitely should've had techno.

Maybe you could let the client download music of the Internet while playing?
I'm thinking about using for example the API of modarchive.org for an ambient tune whit a minimum ranking of 8.
EDIT: the guy that made some of the UT music also has some music @ modarchive
As for example music I'd go a bit towards "one must fall" like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQgkf3DhdI

I have always found that industrial fit well with the FPS genre. I would avoid streaming from the internet because it would eat bandwidth insane. And I am going to have to say that mods generally don't sound that amazing. Trackers can do great things, but not in the form of mods. Not anymore.

I no that xonotic is trying to distance itself from nexuiz but is there any chance of bringing back the sound when hitting a mid air nex "awesome did yoda show u that"?

I really like drum´n´bass and electro to the old nexuiz, would wish to hear cool music to Xonotic too!!!

Some of the music pieces here were very cool, especially dnb and electro
Hope we will find something that fits to the gameplay and the feeling of Xonotic!

I no that xonotic is trying to distance itself from nexuiz

What? What makes you think that?

but is there any chance of bringing back the sound when hitting a mid air nex "awesome did yoda show u that"?

Too long. The current "Amazing" is good enough, I think.