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*NEW* EASY-TO-USE physics set from experimentation by frutiex and kojn (please read)

#26
Alright so finally been able to test the physics in an actual match, 1v1 on final_rage. Have to say the physics felt quite bad Sad

When bunnyhopping, the first 3 jumps are so slow that it's better to not bunnyhop at all most of the time, as you can't really fight at the same time since you need so much space. It's probably not a big deal on big open maps, but on closed ones, such as duel maps there is not enough space to accelerate, you basically have to run thru the whole map once to feel like you're going fast at all. Circle jumps work okay, but since you have to turn about 90 degrees it's not always an option and definitely not newbie friendly at all. So basically, those physics slow down gameplay a LOT compared to Nexuiz. I suppose if that's what's wanted, then fine, but it certainly isn't as fun. It's definitely great to jump around with because you have so much control when turning, so you never have to slow down, but that doesn't work so well during actual play where you are constantly stoping for various reasons, pickup items, dodging, abruptly changing direction, making less noise, etc. It feels like driving an insanely fast car but always being in 5th gear no matter if you're starting at 0 m/h.

Maybe you're going to suggest to enable dodging, but in my opinion that would just be a bad way of fixing the problem without actually fixing it.
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#27
Ok i've shortend this post.

Firstly, the physics were made with dodge in mind and not when it's off which I guess is kind of a bit of a flaw but I will fix them later to solve this problem.
I guess the current problem is, when dodge is off the physics break due to how slow the first few jumps are..I couldn't agree more they are really slow with it off, that's why dodge is so important to have on at the moment with them, however:-

There's two possible solutions to this.

Since I know that you personally are not a fan of dodge for whatever your reasons I'll put both possible fixes here for people who do like dodging and one's who don'tm but have listed the possible side effect below.

1 isn't really a solution such to speak but rather an option.
2 Is an actual solution to when dodging is off.

1) Keep Dodging on, like what was on the video basically eliminates what you are saying, however physics fail when it is set to off due to not being able to get that quick acceleration.

2) Dodging off, but make it so you can still accelerate quickly for when you first need to jump/circlejump, rather then how painfully slow it is at the moment, will only need a quick revision of changing one or two of the setting's and won't effect the ability to turn.

I do know exactly what your saying though, shouldn't be hard to 'fix'

I'll message you later nifrek and add the tweaked settings here so that everyone can try them.

My personal preference is dodging on at the moment, but i'll do these changes and if you could try them out and then tell me if there any better.
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#28
(05-24-2010, 06:53 PM)nifrek Wrote: Alright so finally been able to test the physics in an actual match, 1v1 on final_rage. Have to say the physics felt quite bad Sad

When bunnyhopping, the first 3 jumps are so slow that it's better to not bunnyhop at all most of the time. It's probably not a big deal on big open maps, but on closed ones, such as duel maps there is not enough space to accelerate, you basically have to run thru the whole map once to feel like you're going fast at all. pickup items, dodging, abruptly changing direction, making less noise, etc. It feels like driving an insanely fast car but always being in 5th gear no matter if you're starting at 0 m/h.

Maybe you're going to suggest to enable dodging, but in my opinion that would just be a bad way of fixing the problem without actually fixing it.

Just shorted this quote down for what I wanted to comment on, forgot to do it in my last post.

I am going to suggest dodging ON with THESE physics, because that is the fix to the problem you mentioned, and they were tested with them on.

But i'm also still going to change them so when dodging is OFF to support your comments above so that you don't need to have dodge on, and hopefully it should fix those problems you mentioned.

Basically it's a ground-accel issue so just need to change that, frutiex basically lowered it or something because it wasn't needed since we had dodge to give us that accel I rememberh in saying, I'll also probably slightly increase the forward speed when hopping should be able to solve this issue, the biggest problem originally was getting a decent turning setting to be honest.

After I have done this I will turn dodge on with those tweaked setting's just to see if there's a big different to the originals with it on or not.
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#29
To be honest, I have never seen anyone bunny hopping. Might be amazing to some people here on the forum. I mostly just play regular DM or TDM for my enjoyment, and I just love the combat. I do get quite a bit of speed from laser and rocket jumps, and the grappling hook, but thats about it. I never noticed the hopping and thought that this was some new game ruining addition lol.

Well, I guess it won't really affect me that much, so carry on gents.
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#30
Please keep dodging off.
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#31
overall i like the physics a lot but i have to agree with nifrek that atm it really takes just a bit too long to gain proper speed but like it's been said, it should just be a matter of a few variables. anyway these settings are a nice beginning and absolutely worth a closer look. f1
#doomsquirrels
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#32
Ok, no problem i'll just adjust them later on tonight and put the new settings up in here.
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#33
Dodging genuinely annoyed the hell out of me in every Unreal and Unreal Tournament game released for PC. Turn that crap off please. This isn't Warsow.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#34
Sad Dodging rocks, it adds a lot of depth to 1v1 fights and improves fighting changes against more people, most importantly a well timed dodge will give you a fighting change against any rail-gun. This isn't Warsow and the dodging is not the same, dodging here is more like inside UT and that is a very good system.

I personally would have loved to have strafe jumping in these physics too give more acceleration than normal bunny hopping however I quite like the changes to the physics, they create a whole new depth to movement and fighting, something that sadly was never part of Nexuiz(it was mostly borked because of the physics and the extreme power of the laser that equaled a free rocket boost). Painkiller physics are somewhat close to this and they were awesome, loads more forward air control tough. http://www.own3d.tv/video/10489/BloodStorm

Anyways these are hard choices right to make about the game, to be honest the fewer resemblance to nexuiz in terms of physics and balance the better, these were very very bad parts of the game, always lacking in some aspect, I just hope these come to pass.
#deathmatchers
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#35
(05-25-2010, 07:12 PM)unknownnf Wrote: Sad Dodging rocks, it adds a lot of depth to 1v1 fights and improves fighting changes against more people, most importantly a well timed dodge will give you a fighting change against any rail-gun. This isn't Warsow and the dodging is not the same, dodging here is more like inside UT and that is a very good system.

I personally would have loved to have strafe jumping in these physics too give more acceleration than normal bunny hopping however I quite like the changes to the physics, they create a whole new depth to movement and fighting, something that sadly was never part of Nexuiz(it was mostly borked because of the physics and the extreme power of the laser that equaled a free rocket boost). Painkiller physics are somewhat close to this and they were awesome, loads more forward air control tough. http://www.own3d.tv/video/10489/BloodStorm

Anyways these are hard choices right to make about the game, to be honest the fewer resemblance to nexuiz in terms of physics and balance the better, these were very very bad parts of the game, always lacking in some aspect, I just hope these come to pass.


Warsow was actually easier to dodge in as it wasn't assigned to the movement keys. Dodging on movement keys sucks in my opinion, nothing more annoying than falling off a roof or that damn train on AS-Highspeed. If it's turned into a single button that allows you to leap in whatever direction your moving then it could probably be tweaked to not suck.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#36
(05-26-2010, 12:51 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Warsow was actually easier to dodge in as it wasn't assigned to the movement keys. Dodging on movement keys sucks in my opinion, nothing more annoying than falling off a roof or that damn train on AS-Highspeed. If it's turned into a single button that allows you to leap in whatever direction your moving then it could probably be tweaked to not suck.

Well perhaps have both options, turn on the one you want, I prefer dodging on movement keys than separate button as there will be too many buttons then.

So basically you have no problem with the dodge itself just the way it's implemented if I got you right, these things can be fixed and made right, tough dunno how Tongue.
#deathmatchers
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#37
Basically my reasoning is the same as unknown's so I won't bang on about it, however dodging seems easy but I can guarantee that it actually takes skill to use when fighting in-game when to dodge at the right moments, rather then just bashing the keys like mad, same goes for predicting a player.

Oh yea, warsow only had dash it never had dodging.

Anyway the physics testing thread is filling up which is a good sign so soon hopefully I can start arranging some date's and a schedule, Lee/Unknown if your interested please sign upto that and i'll add you to the list Smile
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#38
I'll probably take a look. Are these hosted on a server right now? I was working on some physics, but making them play nice with the anti-lag and other little annoyances like making sure they're not cheat-prone really killed most of the ideas I had with them.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#39
I'm wondering the same thing, since we are working on these some servers should have them, aka 1 us 1 eu or so.
#deathmatchers
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#40
There available from the xonotic GIT, read the first post there under frutiex's branch.

You need to enable dodging I think before you exec them..not too sure as I have the physics just in a .cfg file of my own as had problems getting from frutiex's branch.

What I will do is when I get home, I will put links to both of the configs here (one for dodging on, one for it off).

unknown, I will also ask lda17h if he can host the original physics that we made on his server and so that we can vote for them, this way we can test them out.

I am also working on some weapons balance with the help from thyr4ne, I will ask lda17h if he can upload what I have done so far, then we can have a play around with them with thyr4ne/frutiex also.
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