Planning for major weapon updates

• Sniper Rifle bullets would explode when they stick inside a target, and only after a certain distance.

-1, the insane weapon switch delay is enough to kill you in a short range fight anyway, and IMHO this brushes aside the SR's best feature, the headshot.

This is a balancing issue, not a problem with the concept itself -- The headshots would still be there anyway as well, and that would still have its bonus too.

@jaykay: Oh god i'm sorry but theres just no way I can reply to all that I think we mostly agree though, so thanks.

youre right, 80% of my post was pure agreement with you shorter version of the points where i dont agree:

lightning primary:
i dont like 100% precision and constant damage. thats too simple, you just need to keep your xhair at the enemy. that may be hard but its just mouse handling, nothing game-specific. i also don't like the idea of the lighting hitting others in the near of the first target. thats just like free extra damage and again nothing you need to learn.
lighning secondary:
a slow, powerful missile/whatever does not fit to the fast and agile style of the lightning. my idea for the shockwave was a ocular defect for those who get hit, but that seems unsuitable. theShadows idea for a ball which is firing lightnings at anything that comes near is the one i would prefer now.

bouncing explosions for crylink:
bouncing projectiles.... ok. doesnt make sense, but ok. but bouncing projectiles which explode on every bounce? how should that work? thats too fancy and unrealistic imo (i know this game is not realistic, but this is just too extreme).

again, the rest of the ideas are, although some have small flaws, good, me likes

@ LG: an electric weapon shooting a "rocket" secondary would look quite weird tho imo... I would like to point out that a relatively insane DPS, accuracy-based weapon would be probably really overpowered with a blackhole as secondary, since you would almost always deal the maximum damage potential, thats for a LG weapon is sick (well at least it should be very high to be usable). But well, if it consumes almost like a magazine of cell per shot then its viable I guess...

Wow, if we implemented these, my like for Xonotic would go up by about 20%. I agree completely. (Not that I am an expert or anything.)

(Though I would like to keep something similar to the Hagar model if/when we merge it with the TAG.)

Idea for LG primary: If you hit a player directly, they absorb all the damage from the weapon. If you hit the floor or wall, then it reaches out and zaps people (less damage).

so... rocket launcher?
ive read it all... , but im drunk atm ..... so i may of missed...
pardon me sir


:^

I didn't find the dedicated thread for your balance, Samual, so i post it here: I had some games with your latest balance yesterday on srv02.xonotic.org, and I find the work you did so far very impressing indeed. I don't have any complaints about how things work as of now. I will try to play regularly on your server to get a better feeling of the weapon/physics settings, only managed to play a couple of games. Anyway, good work so far, I am looking forward to future changes and improvements.

I didn't find the dedicated thread for your balance, Samual, so i post it here: I had some games with your latest balance yesterday on srv2.xonotic.org, and I find the work you did so far very impressing indeed. I don't have any complaints about how thinks work as of now. I will try to play regularly on your server to get a better feeling of the weapon/physics settings, only managed to play a couple of games. Anyway, good work so far, I am looking forward to future changes and improvements.

I'm new to going on particular servers. (I just go on ones where the most players are) Does this mean I can create a server for others to play on with my own physics, balance etc..?

I'm new to going on particular servers. (I just go on ones where the most players are) Does this mean I can create a server for others to play on with my own physics, balance etc..?

Sure you can do that. It is NOT recommended however to host the server and the client you are playing with on the same machine though (like creating a server from the graphical interface and making it public so people can join). Better start the server as a dedicated server on one machine and then connect to that server using another PC. For more information on setting up a server create a new topic, as I don't want this thread to get derailed. :o)

Thanks I may do that.

In regards to nex falloff damage, it simply isn't needed anymore and is a really frustrating 'feature' I never know how much damage I am doing when it is on.

Like I said, falloff would only ever be used again if there was a good visual representation of how much damage the gun will do. IF we can accomplish that though, it certainly should be done. The only reason it was removed in the past was because it lacked a visual indication.

in the GIT build the charge is nicely shown in the crosshair by a ring of triangles(?) which gets filled.
similar to the charge we could do the falloff damage visualisation with the 4 "stripes" (i dont know a nice word for it) in the crosshair. the length of these stripes could represent the distance / percentage of damage... longer "stripes" mean more damage

Or we could just ditch fall off all together A visual representation would make it a lot less painful to have in the game though.

Or we could just ditch fall off all together

What Lee said, it's a horrible really annoying feature, I fully vote against it, just let the weapons do what they do.

EDIT: sorry, off topic

Anyhow played with the current settings are from my brief experience they are actually very good, love the crylink and how it actually does damage, if you get too close it hurts you too like if you shoot it near a wall which is what it should be like feels like UTs flak to me which is great, but I actually felt connected to the game for once and didn't get annoyed when I got killed it felt right when someone shot me twice with the crylink and I was freshly spawned that I should be dead but also felt like when I shot someone else I was able to frag them like I would be expeting, and not have pathetic low damage (like when everyone starts complaining and everything becomes unuseable).

Machinegun was also very very good primary, could actually hit and do damage with it, rockets were cool, like how you've kept most of the same Functionality of the weapon's from fruitiex's stuff to be honest, I was never a fan of the MG secondary anyway but i'll have to see how well it works in your work Samua from what I can tell it also actually does damage and not a pathetic amount.

I would say the electro combo radius can be anything from medium to huge, I hear people say it's a bit too strong at the moment but I can't comment on that till I play a few duels and game's with these settings.

As said on IRC really liked it, and will be playing with this for any future game's I play as it's just much more enjoyable being able to frag now without having to fire 16 shots to get a frag. Obviously only thing I agree with is this health system and the too high caps, but good work so far on everything else.

My feeling is also positive. I finally had fun playing Xonotic.

The major difference for me is that you can get a frag quite quickly. And logically: most of the time, when you have a winning position, you get the frag. Of course because for the surprising effect to be efficient, you don't have to shot 10 times.
Some might say that this recalls Nexuiz... why not. But as long as it is fair, it's ok for me.

Electro combos are just devastating in corridors. Too much, imo. But it feels damn good to recover electro combos.

Using wisely, crylink is indeed efficient and fun to use. My fear is that the spamming potential is also huge, especially in some noob hands on public servers.
Also, when you are at a corner and you have a weak opponent at the other side of the corner, crylink is the ultimate 'finishing' weapon. No need to try to shot directly, spam the walls, and the job is done. It's a pity, imo.

And I didn't get whether nexgun charge has gone.

I don't think you can help that with the crylink if you mean with primary, that's just the way the weapon is, it's exactly the same with UTs flak cannon people do it all the time shooting off walls when an oppo goes around a corner, it's just skill to do it, and to backtrack and get out of the way when someone does it.

However, I am not too keen on the secondary at the moment, I don't get why it bounces off walls seems really spammy imo, like REALLY spammy, but I'd have to use it more.

I don't think you can help that with the crylink if you mean with primary, that's just the way the weapon is, it's exactly the same with UTs flak cannon people do it all the time shooting off walls when an oppo goes around a corner, it's just skill to do it, and to backtrack and get out of the way when someone does it.

but crylink primary could also behave like now but doesn't bounce on the walls, no?

I don't think you can help that with the crylink if you mean with primary, that's just the way the weapon is, it's exactly the same with UTs flak cannon people do it all the time shooting off walls when an oppo goes around a corner, it's just skill to do it, and to backtrack and get out of the way when someone does it.

but crylink primary could also behave like now but doesn't bounce on the walls, no?

= super shotgun?

I had a pretty good duel with sputnik just now, on g-23 I found hitting once with Nex and then finishing with Crylink was a very good combo. But it wouldn't work at all on open maps. Also, spamming the Crylink by itself isn't really very affective, you have to be close and well timed to actually pack a punch with it.

Electro combo might be just a bit strong, but it's been a while since I've played with the Bolt, so that one will just come with time. But the secondary really seemed to have a LOT of range, which also made it more powerful.

@Samual, yeah I guess that's a balancing issue, still, changing the weapon functionality _will_ upset the balance. No biggie there though, I like playing around with the SR

Anyway I just wanted to post that it was all looking good, the functionality is fine, I think he is just going to work on damages etc after, I hope people don't start to bitch if someone starts being good with a weapon, which is what normally happens..let's just let skill difference take it's course once again!

Your right about the crylink anyway nowego, I think these settings will mean you have to play a bit more smarter and tactical in game rather then just rushing at people/items due to the nice damage they do Which is how it should be.

The Crylink primary is way too fast. In a map with some hallways you just need to press fire as fast as you can and don't even need to aim to hit (and kill) someone.

Yes, I played some more last night, and it was a real big spam fast, I have noted these concerns to Samual so hopefully he will fix them.

I like the high damage weapons as said before, but some of the re-fire rates currently (or were) insane, I know Samual reduced it for the crylink so it fire's slower, but i'm not sure by how much, will try again later and reply.

Since lightning primary is a guided(how???) bolt of electricity, make the secondary an unguided bolt, as in it finds and electrocutes the nearest player and jumps to other nearby players with drastic falloff damage. The overall damage should be extremely low, more of a last defense/blind mass attack weapon?

Does the Sniper Rifles exploding bullet(rail gun makes better sense) explode on impact? If so, make it hitscan style. I.E. instant on target explosion.

Been awhile since I've been on Samual's server, but the last time I played there the balance was pretty damn good. If and when the new weapons changes happens it will be FLAWLESS with all the redundancy removed and each weapon feeling unique with some of them not even having equivalents in other shooters. That right there is what is going to make Xonotic stand up against Unreal Tournament (99), Quake Live, Warsow, and pretty much any other arena shooter. If those weapon changes get made and somewhere down the line the animations get cleaned up, it will kick the crap out of every arena fps out now gameplay and depth wise. That's saying a lot considering I've never seen a game (I've only seen a few challengers: Perfect Dark, Tribes 2, and Nexuiz when it was in it's prime) that can top Unreal Tournament's multiplayer.

Still needs a lot of work doing to be honest, to sort out issues with how spammy it is (was) currently and some randomness, so the weapons should be getting done in the next few weeks in preparation for 0.2.