[SUGGESTION] Mine Layer weapon

Yeah, I had this idea for a while and I think it would be pretty fun (especially when we'll have vehicles). What if Xonotic had a Mine Layer weapon, that could stick mines to any surface which detonate when someone gets close?

The way I see such a weapon, it would use the same slot as the Mortar, and of course rocket ammo as well. The weapon itself would look like the Rocket Launcher but with a thicker pipe (close to the port-o-launcher's design perhaps). Mines would be flat and about 3-4 times bigger than a mortar grenade, possibly team colored (and not detonating for team mates).

As for firing types, I'd imagine primary fire lays a mine while secondary detonates any mine you have placed. So when you fire the weapon, it throws the mine at low speed. Once that mine touches a surface, it beeps and sticks to it. However, it doesn't detonate after a period of time, and just stays there until someone gets near it, exploding then (although there should probably be a time limit... a minute or so perhaps). The Mine Layer could still be usable in direct combat too, since a mine explodes immediately once near a player, so you can throw mines over your opponent if needed. One could also detonate enemy mines from a safe distance by shooting them if they spot them.

I think this would be a nice alternative to the Mortar's alt fire in the latest GIT (which instead of bouncing grenades throws grenades that sticks to surfaces and explode in 2 seconds, not even acting as a range-based mine). The mortar could have its bouncing grenades back (which imo were much better) and we could have a real way to mine maps. Imo this would be pretty nice, especially for ONS and stuff

reminds me much of openarena there is already such a weapon

I believe that's called a proximity mine.

and I agree, that would be more useful than the timed explosion mines, although that would seriously screw up CTF gameplay (imagine the whole flag area being spammed with proximity mines)

If we keep the current timed explosion mines, they need to be bigger so you can see them.

Cool idea, but you'll have to think of a way to prevent epic mine spamming!

Maybe you should only be able to lay a maximum of three mines on the map at once? Either that or high ammo usage.

and I agree, that would be more useful than the timed explosion mines, although that would seriously screw up CTF gameplay (imagine the whole flag area being spammed with proximity mines)

Don't like the idea that much...
imagine that o.O!!!
I don't want to go for the flag then

Yeah, people would also place proximity mines over flags and ONS generators / control points. I think there would be ways to prevent that issue though, or stuff like spamming a hallway. One I agree with is ThePWTULN's idea (a cvared maximum of X mines, perhaps 4-5 by default).

However, mines would also be detonated by damage. So if someone wants to get to the flag and sees it's covered with mines, they just shoot any weapon in them. Normally, if they are close enough to each other, one's explosion touches the others which sets them all off quickly.

However, mines would also be detonated by damage. So if someone wants to get to the flag and sees it's covered with mines, they just shoot any weapon in them. Normally, if they are close enough to each other, one's explosion touches the others which sets them all off quickly.

That makes them useless! If they are THAT big!

That makes them useless! If they are THAT big!

Not really imo... or possibly. They can still surprise a player that doesn't see them. eg. One can be placed on the back of a wall at a corner, where players can steer before they get to see it. But I guess that might be a bit less efficient (mines should probably be 2 times the size of a grenade).

We could make mines need a certain amount of damage to explode, so they have to be shot multiple times. Or, when a mine is shot, have a random chance of that mine to explode. Or, make mines only take damage from splash damage weapons, not hitscan ones (they have a metal carcass that is resistant to bullets but not explosions). You then either need to switch to the laser or have a splash damage weapon selected, making it less probable to shoot mines.

layer/proximity mines ... they give you a) to much map control (if you use em correct, you know where the enemy is coming from) and b) they slow down the gameplay, as you always have to be a afraid of a mining field beeing around the next corner. No, I dont like it for a fast paced game :/ They might be good for some mods.

layer/proximity mines ... they give you a) to much map control (if you use em correct, you know where the enemy is coming from) and b) they slow down the gameplay, as you always have to be a afraid of a mining field beeing around the next corner. No, I dont like it for a fast paced game :/ They might be good for some mods.

I think this can be avoided by only placing the Mine Layer on large maps. Preferably outdoor maps, and maps where you can dodge them wherever you are headed (so they can't block an entire path). This would be the mapper's choice mostly.

Otherwise I think we can prevent slowing the gameplay, depending on how mines would work. We could make then not take a lot of damage, and rather act like mini-mines (explode like a hagar rocket, possibly stronger). Or limit the number of mines someone can lay to 3-4 at a time.

Otherwise players throw anything behind a corner if they know where you're coming from. Most do that with normal rockets / grenades, so I don't think mines would be different. They last longer, but the amount of time you can predict where a player is coming from is usually less than the lifetime of a mortar / electro alt-fire projectile.

Anyway I still plan on coding the weapon if I can. If it's too annoying it can just not be placed on maps and / or in entities.def by default. Don't think it would be the case however.

I Don't like that weapon that much (also because we already have so many "explosive" weapons)
But I like the idea of you coding it
IMO we need more Weapons in Xonotic... but not on every map!

I have good news for those who support this feature. I just finished coding the weapon, and the code is available on GIT (mirceakitsune/weapon_mine_layer branch, for anyone who wishes to test it). It's almost ready as far as I'm concerned, though there are still things left to do.

So far, mines stick to surfaces and also take damage when shot. There's also a mine limit, which defaults to 4. If a player tries to place more than that, he receives a warning telling him it's not allowed (like when trying to switch to an unavailable weapon). Mines are meant to be 2 times bigger than mortar grenades currently.

There are still several things that must be done before this is ready. Here is my list of known bugs and things to do:

Bugs:

- Only bug I'm aware of is a minor bug that occasionally causes mines to not detonate remotely if you place too many. Instead some detonate when you fire the next mine after pressing the detonate button, rather than doing it on the spot. Couldn't find what causes this yet. - Fixed

Stuff left to do:

- The weapon currently uses sounds and models from other weapons. We need a modeler and sound artist to make this weapon its own

- Add protection so a mine doesn't explode if it would harm the player or a team mate, in case an enemy is also in its range. This already exists for alt-fire detonation, but not for proximity detonation. Should probably be a cvared but default option. - Done

- The Mine Layer should use the same weapon slot as the Mortar. I couldn't find where that's set, and it currently shares the Rocket Launcher's key. - Done

- It's possible for mines to remain stuck in the air if they hit a moving entity (like an elevator). Haven't tested this yet but it's likely happening. - Done

- Bot code for the weapon may be needed. The bot AI may not have any info about this weapon yet. I'm not too good at that so I haven't looked into it. - Done

- The mine model needs to face properly when it sticks to a surface. Once we'll have a correct mine model, we can't afford the model facing any way it falls to the ground. Should probably look at the porto code to see how portals face in the right direction when sticking to walls.

Good Job
I hopefully will look after it!

Good Job
I hopefully will look after it!

Thank you I'd appreciate any help with testing the gun and finishing what's left to do, if anyone wishes to look into it.

Just for the info: You don't need a map containing the weapon pickup to test it. Just use the 'give all' cheat on any map, which also gives the new weapon.

PROX MINES = BAD IDEA FOR THIS KIND OF GAME.

- It's possible for mines to remain stuck in the air if they hit a moving entity (like an elevator). Haven't tested this yet but it's likely happening.

IIRC there was a similar bug with sticky grenades which was fixed recently. Now they explode when they hit a moving entity.

IIRC there was a similar bug with sticky grenades which was fixed recently. Now they explode when they hit a moving entity.

Nice Should probably look there for examples and solutions. Thanks for mentioning that.

I guess rip mines and prox grenades in Unreal Championship 2 and prox mines in Quake Live didn't piss off players enough as it is.

I don't see why it would annoy players so much, Lee_Stricklin. Imo there shouldn't be a huge difference between dodging a mine and dodging rockets / grenades that experienced players throw in real time, from many points of view. But maybe I didn't play enough shooters with grenades to know.

If the gun is proven to be too annoying, it doesn't need to be added to maps officially. Imo the seeker is an annoying weapon (dunno why it was added back personally), and it's not placed on most maps. But again, this weapon is mostly made for larger maps imo.

There's a BIG difference in dodging a mine and a rocket. Have you played UC2? Mines in the typical environments found in Nexuiz and Xonotic is indeed a bad idea. Mines in a battle where vehicles are used though might be a different story. They would also be cool IF (this aint gonna happen) a SiegeXXL (UT99 mod, look it up) style destroy the enemy base RTS was made for Xonotic. Other than that though, bad idea. Also if mines are made, why make a gun that lays them down? I think it would look cooler if they were thrown similar to how it's done in GoldenEye and Perfect Dark (no weapon model on screen, makes it feel like your actually throwing it) and if done that way, no weapon model would need to be made only the mine itself.

Well, Assault mode sounds closest to a RTS gametype. I think this would work nicely for Assault and ONS alike. And vehicles are one thing I had in mind for this gun Xonotic doesn't have any by default yet, but I think this will be great for the Spiderbot and other slow vehicles in time. My general idea was "for use in outdoor maps", where you can usually go around mines once you spot them.

Well, Assault mode sounds closest to a RTS gametype. I think this would work nicely for Assault and ONS alike. And vehicles are one thing I had in mind for this gun Xonotic doesn't have any by default yet, but I think this will be great for the Spiderbot and other slow vehicles in time. My general idea was "for use in outdoor maps", where you can usually go around mines once you spot them.

That would actually work well. Also, I don't think a device would really be necessary to plant mines, just have the characters throw'em (looks cooler this way). Could probably use the same animation as the shotgun melee for throwing on the models. In first person view I don't think it would be necessary to have anything on-screen until it's being thrown and lobbing them could be done similar to weapon throwing and work well so no real animation would be needed there and it would still look good that way. So really your looking at possibly one recycled animation and one model that needs to be made if you want to implement mines as well as the other crap that goes into implementing weapons.

Can be done, though I'm sticking to a mine laying gun for now. Imho that's prettier, and most fitted for a game like Xonotic (where technology would make everything portable and automated, so you wouldn't have to plant mines by hand). This would also be hard without a first person hand model... since mines are not as long as weapons, so you'd either see a small portion of them or see them floating in the air in first person view.

Can be done, though I'm sticking to a mine laying gun for now. Imho that's prettier, and most fitted for a game like Xonotic (where technology would make everything portable and automated, so you wouldn't have to plant mines by hand). This would also be hard without a first person hand model... since mines are not as long as weapons, so you'd either see a small portion of them or see them floating in the air in first person view.

Actually in GoldenEye N64, there isn't anything on screen when handling mines, grenades, or special items. A small launcher would probably serve as a visual aid to the player though.

The problem is on something like Assault or, even if you set it to 4 mines per player, if you had 5 player's on a team, whats from stopping a team just mining a blocking point on a map for example, with like 9 mines for example? (speaking from a clan game point of perspective here). I know Assault is probably going to be spammy, but being able to lay a huge minfield in front of for example the route where attackers come out would be most annoying.

I don't mind this idea, for ons yes..assault, depending on how it's implemented I don't have an issue with the concept, but for DM/CTF etc, no way, just make it a weapon designed for the ons/ maybe assault gametypes.