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Thoughts about netradiant

#1
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I'm very new to using (net/gtk/zero/etc-)radiant... And I want to share some thoughts and problems about it:

1) Linux Support

Well actually not, netradiant runs good and seems to be stable, but there are just some really bad shortcut desicions:

ALT+Shift+LMB is used for tunneling select:

*) which is really bad, almost every window manager on Linux uses the alt key, so that wont work. I don't know how to change that key it's not listed in the shortcut list?? And also I don't know how to change that key from the os (with gnome fallback mode) However as a quick workaround i switched from metacity to compiz.
*) Why is tunneling select not the default and why is that shortcut key that complex???, why not just LMB for tunneling select? and shift click to select additional brushes, Could be that easy XD

CTRL+TAB for switching views:

Well actually a good desicion: I like that, but often it doesn't work. The tab key seems to be used by the gtk-interface to switch between menus and stuff.... Not that good^^ so every second time using CTRL+Tab it doesn't work, pressing tab multiple times as a quick workaround.

For deselecting a brush i need to press Escape... two times

Why that??? doesn't make sense to me, one time should be enough, and to switch from texture/vertex/edge mode to the brush It would be nice to have a brush mode (maybe just pressing b)

...aaand of course y and z are switched on german keyboards

Nothing more to say about that, not that important as the other bugs.

2) Game Support is not that good

All path are hard to setup

YES almost EVERY SECOND trouble in forums is about that radiant won't find textures, all games using radiant have that trouble.
*) There is no option in radiant where you can set the texture path in radiant. And no info where it searches for textures you have to know that... But maybe you got a big texture collection on your external harddrive... no radiant just looks in /specified game path/textures/... so maybe you also got several games....

It is really a bit frustrating, also when i imported an .ase file, specified "rock02-rock03" as textureNAME in the ase and used _remap to tell the engine and also set Bitmap for the texturepath in the ase, and also qer_texturepath for radiant in the shader file. Well radiant really used the textureNAME in the .ase as filepath which makes absolutely no sense, so i had to place a texture in /Xonotic/data/models/mapobjects , the same path i put the .ase model in. I almost spent an hour to make radiant to load a texture for an imported model, well it's not that important because it's only for the editor... However that was a very wild guess and shows how static netradiant is.

That applies also for Mapping tools, for q1 for example there are A LOT of tools and it's the preference of the mapper which tool to use... Not only q3map2 ...Not only in the radiant dictionary.
And also for engines, there is usually not just One engine to use for a game... there are quite a lot for quake1 for example... i edited the file games/xonotic.game and set engine to:
engine_linux="xonotic-linux64-glx -basedir /home/rudi/zeugs/Xonotic +map rudi #"
That is a really dirty hack. Radiant tries to execute:
xonotic-sdl +fs_gamedir bla +set sv_pure 0 +devmap rudi or something like that... doesn't work.
And why are configuration files in /games/xonotic.games and /xonotic.game/ ?!?

QuArk Solves the game setup stuff way better and it' doesn't have all that troubles to support games.. it still supports hexen2 nobody still maps for that game... but it works, just set all the paths correct!

Xonotic is not alone with that problems, other games, warsow and ufai might be interested to fix that stuff to, so maybe It's a good idea to contact them.

...Well with all these workarounds I'm finally able to map ^^ and apart from that stuff netradiant is really stable, already prefer it over QuArK.

...Unfortunately I absolutely can't code... Sad

3) And yeah netradiant really needs a website currently still linked to alienTRAP.

Not sure whether i posted this in the right place :/
[Image: 11436.png] (PLAY/Drunk/Rudi_Aut ^^)
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#2
Quote:1) Linux Support is absolutely horible

Well actually not, netradiant runs good and seems to be stable, but there are just some really bad shortcut desicions:
Can´t confirm that. For every OS there is an ideal Radiant version which can handle nearly every game it´s supposed to use to.

Quote:ALT+Shift+LMB is used for tunneling select:

*) which is really bad, almost every window manager on Linux uses the alt key, so that wont work. I don't know how to change that key it's not listed in the shortcut list?? And also I don't know how to change that key from the os (with gnome fallback mode) However as a quick workaround i switched from metacity to compiz.
*) Why is tunneling select not the default and why is that shortcut key that complex???, why not just LMB for tunneling select? and shift click to select additional brushes, Could be that easy XD
You only need shift+lmb to select and deselect! No need for using the alt key!

Quote:CTRL+TAB for switching views:

Well actually a good desicion: I like that, but often it doesn't work. The tab key seems to be used by the gtk-interface to switch between menus and stuff.... Not that good^^ so every second time using CTRL+Tab it doesn't work, pressing tab multiple times as a quick workaround.
Never had that problem, neither on Windows nor on any Linux distro I used so far. I suggest you look at your system settings carefully.

Quote:For deselecting a brush i need to press Escape... two times

Why that??? doesn't make sense to me, one time should be enough, and to switch from texture/vertex/edge mode to the brush It would be nice to have a brush mode (maybe just pressing b)
Oh dear, why is it so bad to press escape to leave a mode? Also you only have to press once escape when in normal mode, so no real point to argue about. In my opinion it gives you much more control over what you´re doing. If it really is getting on your nervs then switch to GtkRadiant 1.4 there you only have to press escape once to deselect everything.

Quote:...aaand of course y and z are switched on german keyboards

Nothing more to say about that, not that important as the other bugs.
Uhm, so why is it a problem??


Quote:2) Game Support is absolutely horible

Yes it's absolutele horible.
Seems like everything is horrible for you...

Quote:YES almost EVERY SECOND trouble in forums is about that radiant won't find textures, all games using radiant have that trouble.
*) There is no option in radiant where you can set the texture path in radiant. And no info where it searches for textures you have to know that... But maybe you got a big texture collection on your external harddrive... no radiant just looks in /specified game path/textures/... so maybe you also got several games....
You are developing for a game so why you´d need to set a different path? Also It forces you to keep it all organised and don´t save your textures where the engine of the game can´t find it. The hell, how should that work? The Radiant is a map editor for games and no 3D modelling program!

Quote:That applies also for Mapping tools, for q1 for example there are A LOT of tools and it's the preference of the mapper which tool to use... Not only q3map2 ...Not only in the radiant dictionary.
And also for engines, there is usually not just One engine to use for a game... there are quite a lot for quake1 for example... i edited the file games/xonotic.game and set engine to:
engine_linux="xonotic-linux64-glx -basedir /home/rudi/zeugs/Xonotic +map rudi #"
That is a really dirty hack. Radiant tries to execute:
xonotic-sdl +fs_gamedir bla +set sv_pure 0 +devmap rudi or something like that... doesn't work.
And why are configuration files in /games/xonotic.games and /xonotic.game/ ?!?
You try to solve things which don´t need to be solved. Why are you editing this file? There´s no need to do so!

Quote:QuArk Solves the game setup stuff way better and it' doesn't have all that troubles to support games.. it still supports hexen2 nobody still maps for that game... but it works, just set all the paths correct!
QuArk... no comment.


__________________


I general I think you overdo it a bit. For me it seems like you misconfigured your system and/or your Radiant.
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#3
Please don't get mad with me i just wanted to report stuff that is obviously not working properly on my sys or could be done better.

I didn't want to sound rude. Nefinitely not. Angel

Quote:You only need shift+lmb to select and deselect! No need for using the alt key!

As said if you want to select brushes in 2d you likely want to select a brush that is behind an other brush. So i need to press alt+shift+lmb.

Quote:Never had that problem, neither on Windows nor on any Linux distro I used so far. I suggest you look at your system settings carefully.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with my sys. And it's a very normal behavior that tab cycles trough menus!

Quote:Oh dear, why is it so bad to press escape to leave a mode?

nothing wrong with that, just saying that it could be solved better

Quote: ..aaand of course y and z are switched on german keyboards

Nothing more to say about that, not that important as the other bugs.

Uhm, so why is it a problem??

no not problem, i just wanted to report it somewhere.

Quote:You are developing for a game so why you´d need to set a different path? Also It forces you to keep it all organised and don´t save your textures where the engine of the game can´t find it.

Well i just like to.

Quote:You try to solve things which don´t need to be solved. Why are you editing this file? There´s no need to do so!

I solve it because I can, and i want to run the engine with the map after i compile it. Obviuosly it does not work on default. ? so why not?
[Image: 11436.png] (PLAY/Drunk/Rudi_Aut ^^)
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#4
I don't have any problem with Linux, I'm under Gentoo and using Awesome as my window manager.

NetRadiant looks pretty good for me, I've always used SHIFT+LMB for selecting stuff, but there are only two things that are annoying me :

- Light spheres have disappeared,
- I can't use the arrow keys to navigate in the 3D view, is there a workaround for that ?
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#5
hmm arrow keys work for me Xubuntu 12.04

Edit: as long as you don't press tab ^^
[Image: 11436.png] (PLAY/Drunk/Rudi_Aut ^^)
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#6
Sometimes the numpad and capslock cause this kind of trouble in programs. Try disabling them on your keyboard!
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#7
ah .... netradiant and all its funness

linux support for netradiant is actually much better than it is for windows ... especially theme wise ...

for ctrl tab thing is puzzleing ... I have the issue too evey now and then ... im seems to go away after a minute of mapping though

tunneling select? I didnt know radaint had that ....

texture paths are important because netradiant looks for them the same place xonotic looks for them .... xonotic won't know that textures are on your external hard drive ...

model textures ... be happy you even see the model ... iqm models just show up as a little green box in radiant Tongue ... but yeah ... that should be fixed ...

as for engine starting stuff ... I dont use it ... some compiles can take 20+ minutes ... I dont want to be surprised by xonotic opening itself ...

yes ... netradiant needs a new site ...

netradaint is a funny program ...

and before you get too it (cause I know you will eventually) netradiant doesn't support texture alpha transparency either ...
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#8
(08-06-2012, 10:28 AM)hutty Wrote: and before you get too it (cause I know you will eventually) netradiant doesn't support texture alpha transparency either ...
It does. Set "qer_alphaFunc gequal 0.5" in your shader. But then be sure that your editor image which you should have set via qer_editorimage also has an alpha channel!
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#9
hmm ... haven't heard of that one ... I'll have to give it a try ...
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#10
I have noticed the issues with ctrl+tab no longer working. The fix for me is simply to right click 3d view and click out of it again. Ctrl+tab starts to work after I do that.

Regarding the arrow keys not allowing movement in 3d window.. This happens to me whenever I have caps lock on. Not sure if this is a fix for everyone but double check it.

There are a few things that I do not like in terms of actually editing.

1. Clipper mode. I prefer the method that gtkradiant 1.4 used. Instead of having to toggle in and out of clipper mode all the time, you could simply ctrl+right click to place your clipper points.

2. Shearing brushes. In gtkradiant 1.4, you had the ability to ctrl+click near a side of a brush and it allowed you to shear the brush. I have found a workaround for this but it is extremely slow in comparison. I must go into vertex select, shift + click box around the vertices of that face, and then click and drag the vertices. Finally, I must hit escape twice to deselect and exit vertex mode.

I suppose these are relatively minor gripes.. I have however spent hours upon hours in the last few weeks creating trisoup brushwork terrain and these 2 changes in netradiant have greatly decreased the speed I could do it at. Its more like beating the triangles into submission.

One additional thing which just came to mind.. iirc it was possible to lock movement along an axis in gtkradiant 1.4. This is particularly useful for my situation again.. say I'm working with some ground terrain, its nice to be able to lock X and Y axes so I can drag vertices up and down without worrying about breaking anything.


IMPORTANT: I have noticed a trend of people being bashed for giving suggestions.. something along the lines of "stop complaining or do it yourself". These are not meant as complaints in that way. Just some suggestions from somebody who would try their hand at fixing it but get lost and give up Smile
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#11
(08-11-2012, 01:06 AM)Revenant Wrote: 1. Clipper mode. ...
yup.

Quote:2. Shearing brushes. ...
yup. Not only that, in 1.4 you can actually shear/fade drag a whole pile of faces at once. And lets not forget paint-select.. sigh.

Quote:I suppose these are relatively minor gripes.. I have however spent hours upon hours in the last few weeks creating trisoup brushwork terrain and these 2 changes in netradiant have greatly decreased the speed I could do it at. ...
To be fair, its not a change in netradiant, but one in gtkradiant 1.5 that netradiant was based on. But yes, basically if you do allot of brushwork, net/1.5 is hopelessly inferior to its predecessor. Your best bet as far as trisoup's go is to model them instead, or possibly use 1.4 and net side.by-side (that has issues too tough, not to mention the problems getting 1.4 to work with Xonotic).
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#12
Revenant Wrote:1. Clipper mode. I prefer the method that gtkradiant 1.4 used. Instead of having to toggle in and out of clipper mode all the time, you could simply ctrl+right click to place your clipper points.

2. Shearing brushes. In gtkradiant 1.4, you had the ability to ctrl+click near a side of a brush and it allowed you to shear the brush. I have found a workaround for this but it is extremely slow in comparison. I must go into vertex select, shift + click box around the vertices of that face, and then click and drag the vertices. Finally, I must hit escape twice to deselect and exit vertex mode.

I suppose these are relatively minor gripes.. I have however spent hours upon hours in the last few weeks creating trisoup brushwork terrain and these 2 changes in netradiant have greatly decreased the speed I could do it at. Its more like beating the triangles into submission.

Exactly! http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=2845 Wink
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#13
EDIT: mixed it up forget this post.
[Image: 11436.png] (PLAY/Drunk/Rudi_Aut ^^)
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