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[SUGGESTION] Alt fire mode for Nex instead of scope?

#1
..Because at the very least in my opinion the scope view for Nex is rather dull and useless. Not because some people like I, figure out it's better off without it, but especially when you have an another available input for zoom feature which also works on any other weapon. So basically, I think the scope for Nex is a complete waste of potential alternative fire mode.

It could for instance be like Shock Rifle in UT:

UT's Shock Rifle has a primary fire mode similiar to your ordinary railgun/nex. But unlike your ordinary railgun/next, shock rifle has a ball of energy for alternative fire mode which can be blown up with primary fire. Combination of these two fire modes are very powerful, but hard to learn and use casually.

If the ball explosion doesn't sound good it could have other features, like ricocheting the primary beam or something. What you think?
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#2
You could say the exact same thing about the laser secondary, and the last discussion I saw about this resulted in a strong opposition. Good luck with your idea.
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#3
Copy-paste feeling, Xonotic ain't UT or Quake copy it's its own. But it's a quite good idea. Smile
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#4
I actually am in support for having many different available secondary fires ... and then letting the player choose which one they want to use ...

If not ... I would like to keep the zoom ... because thats what I use to zoom ....
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#5
If Shock Rifle's features were implemented you would have to get used to the zoom key you use in minstagib, eg. Mouse3? But then you could also use it with other weapons.

(11-28-2012, 03:27 PM)hutty Wrote: I actually am in support for having many different available secondary fires ... and then letting the player choose which one they want to use ...
Sounds quite bizarre, but if there already isn't, there should at the least be a way to swap places between primary and secondary fires for each weapon.

(11-28-2012, 03:26 PM)machine! Wrote: Copy-paste feeling, Xonotic ain't UT or Quake copy it's its own.
Well I did not know that the 'LG' which is supposedly coming to 0.7 was an original concept and idea of Xonotic community.
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#6
we already have a similar effect in the electro that isn't as OP.
Nex would be to strong if we did this.

f2 for me i'm afraid.
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#7
s1lence has a really good point ...
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#8
Any splash damage alt fire would be awesome, so the nex would be finally useful for ppl with a not so good aim like me.

The zoom key is sufficient for zoom IMHO, no need to duplicate this as alt fire on a weapon.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#9
Being someone that uses the bind key instead of the Nex secondary fire mode, I'd generally support an additional fire mode for the Nex. I'm not so sure about what it should be, the shock rifle combo of UT doesn't appeal to me. This combo is something very specific that I associate very strongly with UT, unlike other more general weapon concepts that would be, imho, easier to copy without creating the "YOU COPIED THIS IT'S A RIPOFF OMG" feeling.

But any alternative fire mode would mean we would need to nerf the primary fire, as an additional fire mode would give you more options to use this weapon alone which would in turn make it more valuable than it currently is and therefore more powerful. But since I think the primary fire is a bit too strong at the moment anyway, I'd favor of for example reducing the non-charged damage and adding a secondary fire mode, whatever that may be.

A spontaneous idea I have about nex secondary fire: secondary fire shoots a ball just like UT shock rifle, that does similar damage including splash as electro secondary balls (undetonated) and maybe explodes automatically after a certain time to limit range. If you shoot the ball with nex primary, this causes the ball to explode but not to deal more (direct/splash) damage than it would otherwise do. Instead, the beam damage gets a boost and does a little bit of splash damage and splash push force upon impact, just a tad above laser splash push force upon impact. This would provide a combo especially designed for taking out enemy campers and also allow for some spectacular frags on medium range :o) refire time between primary and secondary has to be set so you can't immediately detonate the ball of course.

This is just a quick idea but I'm beginning to like it. What does Samual think about this? He's the one that actually has a plan about the big picture of the balance...
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#10
To be honest you could just simply make the secondary do 40/45 damage but fire very quickly, much like UTs shockrifle. So it could be useful for multiple opponent situations. Just a thought and also is simple enough (then remove charge on primary!).

I also use zoom on a seperate key.

Combo ball would also be quite cool but you might aswell just replace the eletrco then with the lightning gun proposal. No point having two weapons that both can combo imo, as you'd then have one that can be used for mid-long and another close to mid range mainly.

Change MG then to chaingun and all sorted!
HI SAMUAL Big Grin
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#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#11
I like your idea kojn, as simple as your suggestion may be but it´s worth trying in my opinion.
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#12
what if secondary placed a lock on a location (static/non moving ... like a wall or somethig )

Then pointing the nex at a different angle would arc the nex beam
the arced beam would land at the targeted spot

...


or a bounding nex beam ... (that bounces 5 times or something ...)
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#13
Nexgun:
Primary, instahit 70 dmg (maybe even 65 dmg so you need combos to deal a lot of damage, still useful as finisher)
Secondary, ut-like combo ball, combo 100-120 dmg max (needs balance)

Electro + mg can both go then (latter replaced by lg), instead make crylink a proper flakcannon and things will be neat.
But wont ever happen anyway..

p.s.: "suggestion box" should be renamed to "gathering dreams" .. now that is a suggestion too, isn't it?
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#14
(11-29-2012, 12:55 PM)asyyy Wrote: p.s.: "suggestion box" should be renamed to "gathering dreams" .. now that is a suggestion too, isn't it?

+1 Smile
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#15
I don't really like the idea of a secondary firemode for the Nex. Also i dont understand that players want to remove the charging feature. This is an unique thing! The game should keep this.

If there is really a demand for an alternative firemode for the Nex, what do you think of a beam,
  • that is not so focused like the primary fire. A beam that has a little scattering to hit several targets side by side? (the beam looks like a cone)
  • that is able to shoot through a player and hit another player behind the first one? (only available if the Nex is fully loaded)
  • that has a rebounce effect like a ricochet? (i know this from an old warsow instagib modification, that don't exist anymore... it was very challenging)
These are several suggestions, i don't want to combine them!

But beside an alternative firemode, the zoom of the Nex could be improved. Maybe a thing like nightvision view could be added to the zoom. Something the normal zoom would not have - maybe thermal sight (infrared view).
The mind is like a parachute, it only works, if it is open!
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#16
(11-29-2012, 12:55 PM)asyyy Wrote: Nexgun:
Primary, instahit 70 dmg (maybe even 65 dmg so you need combos to deal a lot of damage, still useful as finisher)
Secondary, ut-like combo ball, combo 100-120 dmg max (needs balance)

Electro + mg can both go then (latter replaced by lg), instead make crylink a proper flakcannon and things will be neat.

then the HAGAR can be moved to cell ammo and we can have perfect ammunition symmetry :O
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#17
(11-28-2012, 07:18 PM)s1lence Wrote: we already have a similar effect in the electro that isn't as OP.
Nex would be to strong if we did this.

f2 for me i'm afraid.
But the Shock Rifle combo or something similar would and should be twice as harder to use in full effect compared to Electro combo.

(11-29-2012, 08:13 AM)Halogene Wrote: A spontaneous idea I have about nex secondary fire: secondary fire shoots a ball just like UT shock rifle, that does similar damage including splash as electro secondary balls (undetonated) and maybe explodes automatically after a certain time to limit range. If you shoot the ball with nex primary, this causes the ball to explode but not to deal more (direct/splash) damage than it would otherwise do. Instead, the beam damage gets a boost and does a little bit of splash damage and splash push force upon impact, just a tad above laser splash push force upon impact. This would provide a combo especially designed for taking out enemy campers and also allow for some spectacular frags on medium range :o) refire time between primary and secondary has to be set so you can't immediately detonate the ball of course.
So basically the beam stings through the ball and from there onward it makes more damage than normally? What if the beam goes through two or three balls, would the damage multiply according to that too? If I got it right I would like this idea very much too. Getting a direct hit through multiple balls would be very rare for it needs a straight line and a stationary opponent or just a very good prediction. You could also use balls others have shot to your benefit. Rare frag opportunities and achievements like this would be awesome. I could see the voice narrator saying awesome to this as well.
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#18
Well it wouldn't have to accumulate if there are several balls but that would be ok for me too (might be useful for attacking a flag carrier that sits inside the base in a tank on vehicle maps...). As the beam is insta hit, it would also make sense to me if the entire beam deals more damage and not just starting from the first hit of the ball, as I figure it would be hard to code different damages for the same beam but anyway this is probably not going to come.

I don't think this is in conflict with electro combo, as the combos have an entirely different effect (splash vs direct damage). I always liked the electro combo a lot and would not see a reason why we couldn't have another one weapon combo, provided it doesn't overpower the already very strong weapon.
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#19
I agree with halogene ....

but also ...

why not make it an orange ... and after shooting it the beam turns orange and catches the enemy on fire (if hit of course)
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#20
(11-30-2012, 08:42 AM)hutty Wrote: I agree with halogene ....

but also ...

why not make it an orange ... and after shooting it the beam turns orange and catches the enemy on fire (if hit of course)

A weapon that sets people on fire would be really cool. Maybe nex have a laser as secondary that deals low damage on hit but sets target aflame and applies damage over time? Are there any weapons that do damage over time currently? It would only be appropriate for it to be short range IMO.
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#21
^Flamethrower? That would be a bit redundant with LG.

I support idea of getting rid of those placeholder modes: nex secondary and laser secondary. For nex secondary, my first idea was shock rifle primary like, hitscan, with flat low damage (30-40) and moderate rof.

Other idea was, since crylink secondary also gives some hard time to figure out, what should it be, to merge crylink primary and nex primary into one weapon. Though it does have its problems (eg what weapon model to use?)
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#22
Is the whole laser thing happening to the nex now?

People, please don't forget about step one: is there any need to "fix" this? How badly is it needed?
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#23
(11-30-2012, 03:43 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: step one: is there any need to "fix" this? How badly is it needed?

not at all, the nex is well balanced and the dev resources would be best spent perfecting the LG. ;_;
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#24
"nex is well balanced" lol.
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#25
I remember there was a mod/mutator for UT (99) once that added a shitload of weapon modes. One of them that I particularly liked was for the shock rifle, that made it shoot multiple (less damaging) beams at once, randomly spread. Effectively it made it work more like a shotgun, but with a cool visual effect... So maybe something like this?
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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