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[WIP] <Island>

#1
Hello I'm making a new map and I'd like to hear some feedback during the process.

Its basically a big island with stacked arenas. Giving many places for 1v1 situations but also being traversable fast. (Jumppads, 8 Warpzones)
It has the Onslaught stuff and bot waypoints.

Less lazy desc:
My idea is to have 2 asymmetrical bases with many different approaching angles and variable paths (with varying difficulties). Having open and closed areas mixed to be able to utilize all weapons without making the sniper too powerful overall and having a sniper blocking an area all the time as valid tactic because you have enough ways to get around him or even sneak up from behind. (+providing near machineguns as counter)
Also providing increasingly more geometry for trick- and laser jumps. (you can traverse vertical on the sides using 1 laserjump per floor). There are 4 warpzones for each base connecting the lower with the upper floors but a bit angled to slow you down on those (as compensation for being an easy way and for render performance).

Any feedback is highly apprechiated even if you think this map sucks. (but at least tell me something I could improve on and maybe I got something you'd like me to keep)
I took the feedback of my last map (hex) very seriously and while I like making bigger maps I try different ways to make capping about as fast as you're used to.

New version: https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.ph...6#pid83216
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s3rv8zg0ms...nd_wip.pk3


All Imges:
https://imgur.com/a/hJsiyj5

Front:
[Image: abzHyEH.jpg]

Back: | Bay Area:
[Image: fSJQ8SA.gif] [Image: KOP6uWG.gif]

Shrine:
[Image: 7Mzf5EW.jpg]

Map:
[Image: DYqPGK0.png]

EDIT: bit less lazy description
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#2
Thinking about taking it into SPAAACEE because that calm-reflective-evening-sea-thing looks kinds relaxing and boring. Also it hurts performance.
Added some experiaental detail to jumppad and warpzone rooms. And falling now kills you so the vertical route on the sides(laser jump) is now risky on its own.
And gave each floor some rim-lights so you can easily tell what your floor you're on.

V_WIP2: http://www.mediafire.com/file/abqnsg4dby...d_wip2.zip

[Image: H1MnYWr.jpg]
[Image: Jrg8Hpo.jpg]
[Image: wwC6ASK.jpg]
[Image: geO1r93.jpg]

(If you're wodering about the fps, mine are locked slightly below what my monitor can handle for freesync)
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#3
wow good work
Kwakkie
[Image: 39855.png]
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#4
Making it a generic space floater just seems like a downgrade, I liked the evening sea style more. I think the issue was the interior, which did not quite match the outside aesthetics.
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#5
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah got some problems with the interior design. I went with some greek-like style. But while looking imposing on the outside its mostly plain white stone with some engraved stories below the roof and statues while spreading symmetries and certain ratios across the place which make for subtle details. For the inside I mainly tried using those big doors their temples use and getting some kind of city going on.

At the moment I try finding a balance between this ancient style and xonotics.
These are my thoughts on it:
-taking the greek style and apply xonotics a bit improvised(those lamps and solar panels should get wire connections) like an excavation with some repurposed rooms
-being already excavated and mostly repurposed
-blending those styles to get some kind of industrial retro greek style
-making it a greek styled space station (a bit like mass effects omega) with much neon signs and glowy lights
-trying something completely different because maybe that greeky isnt the right thing (also thinking about replacing all pillars with squared ones, cutting the round edges to make a half-'+'-shape on the ends for easier vertical traversal)

What I'm actually doing:
-mixing the ideas above and trying to figure out what aspects I can combine to look decent while also trying new ideas

Funny thing is I'm using the same water texture as on this map but on my client it has no refraction looking that flat and boring. With that the water would be acceptable. Because I can't use the fog for reinforcing the water because it's better used for color perspective as the map uses mostly the same colors across it.
https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=7521

EDIT: now i even got a new concept like taking the calm sea thing, make a good water texture, gold (and maybe other metal) textures and make it look more steampunk-industrial but less modern and keep the improvised xonotic lightning and make the excavation thing more prominent. I'm also not quite happy how the rooms are like isolated islands within each floor. so many choices while being too undecicive :/

If you got any ideas or suggestions for the map just post them and ill put them into my mix of concepts and if it fits within the concept I'm finally going with ill make it. (my brother had the idea of taking it into space and making it a station with casino, strip club etc. that would require me to rebuilld most rooms i guess but i would do as i see fit)

EDIT2: good that i uploaded it didn't know that autobuild deletes everything :/

EDIT3: I guess sandstone is the way to go i also tried getting some believable gold textures but seems like i cant overlay a envmap to a specific region of a texture :/

[Image: 3zFWqeg.jpg?1]
[Image: UYpKuaR.jpg?1]
[Image: OA4QGuf.gif]
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#6
Try this then: Knossos (its from before Greeks - Minoan civilization) 
And I agree with Smile: Rocks idea seemed better. I think you designed this map based mostly on fast movement. Maybe clipping windows and moving columns away from the walls would make it easier to move at high speeds around. Stairs near the blue base are hard to climb!
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#7
Thanks for the feedback. I really like those columns!  I still feel like this map lacks some defining details and a defining style but I'm still a bit 'shy' when it comes to that part I fear. (EDIT: the other thing is as former computer science student(not done) I kinda understand the performance impact the vis-trees have and how _boxsize works there but I'm concernd that adding too much detail to each column would cause huge frame drops inconsistently for some areas - like the bay; but I still want to try adding details to the colums just to see if i'm wrong)

This one is actually more to enforce teamplay and adding some strategical/tactical depth by giving many different approaching angles and map parts that play very differenty tactically. (Some open arenas, some urban-like structures, some parts where you can build some speed but it should also be hard and hardly feasible maintaining it all over the place especially when switching territory, and on top a very open field to welcome campers but they are very floor-restricted)
The only thing I tried in terms of speed is keeping some balance between red and blue while still being asymmetrical.
Moving some colums is possible. I wanted to add some destructed stuff as details.

If you think I didn't achieve my goals or my goals are not really fitting please tell me and maybe also give your very personal approach of solving these issues. More map detail suggestions are also very welcome.
Or if you'd like you can also take the editor and modify my map as you wish. I would then take your map and make it fit my concept while you're still free to release it as your version.
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#8
I just realized something! The map looks very like the Colosseum! Maybe use some of ancient Romans stonework ideas? and if you are going for the Minoan columns - there is no need for any details in them, take a look

Asymmetrical maps are unfortunately never balanced! But its very good that you are giving it a go, its a big challenge! When it comes down to the layout: You are giving players too many approach angles (5 floors is an overkill) - you should perhaps change your approach: Firstly design the gameplay (with existing popular CTF maps in mind) and then add a theme to it. This way you will ensure that your primary concern will always be the scale, balance, gameplay and the secondary will be theme and visual side. If the map is so complex and huge (like yours is) people will simply get lost or be too busy traversing and sightseeing the map instead of focusing on finding the right items and their opponents. 

The map has idea and good execution but it simply way too complex - it's layout might be easy to you as a designer (who created every single brush) -  You know every piece of it by heart but players have to be able to learn it too (preferably after 3-8 minutes of playing on it - Im not talking about learning strategies and positioning, just a raw 3d map in the brain). Jump into your own map and do the test: Pretend you are a new player who just downloaded the map and wants to try it out for the first time. Move towards objects and areas that attract your attention (such as contrasts, movement, pickups, inviting corridors...) 
Move around your map like its your first run on it and ask yourself: Where does this pathway lead? Can I orient myself? Did I just go through a warpzone and if yes, where did it teleport me?  Where would I go to pick up the nex gun (vortex/sniper)? Is there a shortcut to the enemy base? What weapon is on the floor over there? Can I pick it up without enemy jumping me from behind this corner?.... Try to feel for a newbie on the map and you will see what can be improved, clarified, scaled down, removed, added and explained. Warpzones are always confusing... and the way you positioned them there are the most confusing of them all (so confusing that even after using them a lot I didn't know these were warpzones untill I read it from your post)

Top down view of your map on the sketch is always a good idea to start design. I always like to make some sketches on a piece of paper before I jump into modelling on computer, maybe it would work out  in your favor too? And try not to cheat by having 5 pieces of paper - each with different floor on it! Instead draw everything on just one sheet, as a one, whole immersive and consistent layout. 2 floors usually is enough. If you want you can add a third one here and there and to visualize this on paper you would need to draw a cross-section of your map. Such cross-section would also show the stairs, teleporters, heights of floors and doorways and windows...

Good luck _para!
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#9
Thank you so much for your time that feedback is gold!  Big Grin
My brother also reminded me of how it looked like the colusseum and your feedback makes me wanna smash a few meteors(one idea I had some time ago) into the center and some corner parts. That would let the map stay relatively complex, tell a story and be accessible in terms of easily finding a way and having some debris as staircases. But then I need to find a way to make it less campable... but debris and chunks of a meteor :3 . I hope those details won't be overkill for perf.
Also I'd add some more foliage (make some textures).

The balance I had in mind was like blue has the easier way in and the harder way back, and vice versa for red. Also putting some more thought into item-placement to compensate for minor advantages.
Too many approach angles could also be solved by that meteor. Thanks for pointing that out.
I guess I should finally reverse my approach of making maps. When I start I have a rough model of my map in my mind and add detail in a recursiveish manner when rethinking parts.

Yeah I agree. I always try to imagine how new people would use the map and some of its parts but your 'checklist' is really helpful when getting lost in my ideas while blindly assuming it's easy enough.
I thought about colour coding the portals(also on minimap).
Actually the warpzones were thought much more complex like reconnecting randomly with some corridors between them and sometimes leading into an alternative dimension. (maybe also referencing other Xonotic maps by 'stealing' parts)
But the random-warpzone-reconnect-entity couldn't be made working the way I thought it would work.
Here the meteor would also destroy some warpzones(I also dislike their box model I used to make them more obvious). Also some rethnking them needs to be done

When adding that meteor and aging I'd remove this crane I guess and other technical references(also that rather modern glass texture) maybe going for a more archaeological story. Also color coding the main path between the flags with structural detail and maybe spray-decals from the new story. And those rocks are getting their return.

Making sketches is a good idea. I thought these rough 3d-mind-models were enough. But when having them on paper first theres more thought into the making process even before touching the editor.
And that paper-floor-approach is really good for making sure it's comprehensible and memorable.


Anyways that was really helpful and I'm glad you took the time. Thanks c:



EDIT: I think I'll just abandon this one for now(maybe continue in a year or something) and take the lessons and feedback. I'll do better with future maps. Feel free to do what ever you want with it.
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