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[WIP] Huq

#1
Hi, I am back with a new map! Smile

Please read the following lists before making any suggestions:
  • Of course, constructive criticism is welcome (destructive too, but not preferred Tongue)
  • final textures have not been applied yet, do not comment on them please
  • Overall structural appearance is in progress, comments on shapes etc. are welcome
  • Item placement is just a concept at the moment, needs fixing! I need your help play-testing it!
  • Map layout is pretty much (not) in a final state, if you have any suggestions to make, comment now!

Issues:
  • Doorways are too small, easily bumping into the edges
  • Bridge room: chaotic, unattractive, awkward to move through, too much entrances
  • The map feels a bit too small, cramped?
  • Connections are not very natural, especially the lower one with the warpzone, "Why not knock down the wall blocking lower mega health room to bridge room?" [original post by Matuka]
  • Make transitions between rooms more open?
  • Adding an additional room?
  • More spawnpoints, prevent spawn-raping
  • Spread shards across the map
  • More health in the bridge room
  • Swap Rocketlauncher and Mortar?

Changelog:

version 3 alpha:
  • removed bridge-room
  • colour-coded main items
  • drastically revamped layout for a more open design

version 2 alpha:
  • taller doorways for easier movement
  • moved warpzone to directly connect main room with bridge-room
  • tweaked the shape of the bridge-room
  • more medium health
  • spread shards a little bit
  • added spawnpoints
  • swapped Rocketlauncher and Mortar
  • removed teleporters
version 1 alpha:
  • initial release

Download: huq_v3.pk3 (version 3 alpha, licensed under GPL v3)

Happy fragging! Big Grin

[Image: huq_v3.jpg]
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#2
My "in progress" maps usually look more "in progress" Wink

But well, let's get to it:
I feel like doors are bit too small (you have to go exactly in the middle), maybe make them bit bigger (32 units to both sides and on top?)
Haven't played it yet, but it feels like all action will happen in mega room, there is almost no incentive to go anywhere else.
I think it could use more rooms somewhere, it's bit on a small side Wink (Is it duel map?)
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#3
Thanks! I already had my concerns too about the doors. Wink Will fix that.

Yes, the map is meant to be played with 2 - 6 players. I thought the height would allow for more room. The map Warfare is pretty much about the same size. I'll wait for others to comment on that. Some gameplay videos would really help judging about this.
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#4
This is very exciting work, Maddin. I'm happy to see something that has a promising and original premise. I'm looking forward to seeing this played, as well as being developed further.

I have been playing through it for a while now and have formulated a lot of thoughts, however I'm not too sure how to verbalize them, let alone even organize them. I think the biggest culprit for change right now is the bridge room and how it interacts with the rest of the level. I think once the bridge room has been changed, it would be more appropriate to challenge other parts of the map that could do with a lot of work.

The bridge room, well... It's very chaotic, and unattractive. It reminds me of the Yellow Armor room in the Quake map Hektik, just that it's very awkward to move in and doesn't feel like it flows with the rest of the map due to the scale of the map and the movement of the game. The room its self is very blocky, narrow, has 5 different entrances to get to it of which are all in awkward positions (5 entrances! Just for a nex and a 50a!), and very hard to fight in (I can only imagine fighting across the bridge, shooting downwards directly to an opponent appears to be frustrating to do). I would suggest scrapping the room together and working on a new concept, or at least starting from scratch again and making something more appealing. From the way the map flows right now. Make it bigger, larger, more iconic, and more open, and consider how opponents will be fighting in it.

In terms of ideas, I'd start off with the connectors, they're not very natural in terms of how they transition into a new room, they feel like they're there just for the sake of being there. If you take a look at a map like apdm3, the map still remains very open and natural, especially in the way that it includes the transitions between each room. Or perhaps you could look at the way the map Traveler handles being open whilst still providing cover and distance. In regards to Huq, I don't think the map is open enough when it comes to transitioning to the next area, you have to fit yourself through these tiny entrances and then through the tiny corridor, and then through the tiny exit. It's very closed off and I wouldn't want to be there when a mortar nade goes off.

In particular the lower connector that uses the warpzone, why does this have to be a thing at all? It's very awkwardly placed and isn't very creative or attractive. Why not knock down the wall blocking lower mega health room to bridge room? This makes the map more open and a lot more interesting. In regards to the difference in height, you could make up by adding an open curved staircase similar to the ones you find in The Edge or Hidden Fortress. This also would help set the scale and design of a new room in order to replace bridge room, of which I think the map desperately needs. I spoke with dekrY and smilecythe from #xonotic.pickup and I think they both agreed that having this would improve the flow and design of the map.

Not sure if I went on a lot, too much to talk about or to formulate into coherent understandable lines of English...

come to IRC
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#5
Hi Maddin,

I took a first look at your map.
I'm sure it will look awesome once it's fully textured Wink

However, as proraide pointed out, most of the action will probably happen on the MH room (which is huge), and I agree with matuka about the other room, currently it's too small and not very useful.
During duels, it may be hard for the down player to come back in such a configuration Smile

About item placement: the 50a near MH seems a bit unfair, as the leading player will be able to easily control MH + 50a. Maps like fuse also have two 50a, but they are in different rooms than the MH.
Also, maybe the mortar on top of the stairs should be replaced by a stronger weapon (RL or vortex), I wouldn't take the risk to fall in space for a mortar Big Grin (just my opinion)

Anyway, it needs play-testing, I added the map to psyx duel server!

Oh, one last thing, the map name might be in use already Big Grin
Is this yours: http://stats.xonotic.org/map/4356 ?

EDIT:
Played it in duel, it was fun Cool
The vortex + 50a room actually proved useful and some action happened here.
There should be more spawnpoints, though. I got spawn-raped a bit when spawning near the RL :p
Tell me if you want the demo (can't really upload the whole match on YouTube with my poor bandwidth).
Stats | Maps: CTF: disarray, vinegar, metro DM: labyrinth Duel: cucumber, quark.
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#6
Hey Maddin!

Me and SpiKe just played one duel on your map.

I thought in the beginning that 50a + MH in the same room would be a bit unbalanced but it turned out to be rather okay because the teleporter to nex-room (with the 50a) connects those rooms really fast. The tunnels may be a bit tiny but nothing that annoyed me that much. Replacing RL-location with Mortar might be something to discuss. One thing I also noticed was the predicting spawn-kills which happened some times near the RL-location.

It could also be useful to spread the armor-shards a bit more on the map + place some more health in the vortex+50a room. Considering that MH+50a+RL+mortar is in the same main room and it might be too difficult for the player which is not stacked/in-control.

Anyhow, I really enjoyed the map. Especially the rocket curves around corners in the main-room and through tunnels!Big Grin

Great work Maddin!
[Image: 65153.png]
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#7
@Matuka: Thank you for the awesome feedback! I probably have to read this 10 times to get every point you made but still, it provides a lot of interesting elements worth trying out... Big Grin

@SpiKe!: No idea what this map actually looks like you have linked to (no screenshots on XonStats, so I can't tell). There is an older and completely different version of Huq in the Git repositories, maybe that is what they downloaded. As for the demo: I'd be really happy, if you'd share it! Smile

@all: I added a list of issues currently present with this map to the first post.
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#8
New version is out! Please update your copy and do some playtesting! I need more feedback!

Changelog:
  • taller doorways for easier movement
  • moved warpzone to directly connect main room with bridge-room
  • tweaked the shape of the bridge-room
  • more medium health
  • spread shards a little bit
  • added spawnpoints
  • swapped Rocketlauncher and Mortar
  • removed teleporters

Download: huq_v2.pk3 (version 2 alpha, licensed under GPL v3)
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#9
[Image: image.jpg]

This map is coming out nicely, just a few suggestions on the bridge room (50a+nex)

1) If you could perhaps make a big window here, it will provide more space for action, and the room will be less bloated with walls and more opened up as shown above.

2) Maybe make the bridge thinner, so there is more angle in top <-> bottom engagement situations.
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#10
New version incoming! The layout has been drastically reworked, with the bridge room being completely removed in favour for a more open design. I think the flow with this version seems way better, still I am a bit worried about the Vortex to be to dominant on this map... needs testing! The most important items are colour-coded for better recognition and orientation until I apply some textures and detail structures.

I am looking forward to read your opinions on this concept! I will try to be on IRC (freenode.net#xonotic and quaknet.org#xonotic.pickup) more frequently, so you can meet me their too.

Download: huq_v3.pk3 (version 3 alpha, licensed under GPL v3)
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#11
I updated the map on psyx duel.

From a first glance, the map looks indeed way more open without the secondary room.
I liked the v2 layout, but the v3 layout definitely needs play-testing Big Grin
Stats | Maps: CTF: disarray, vinegar, metro DM: labyrinth Duel: cucumber, quark.
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