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The Vehicles thread

#1
Your ideas on furthering the development of Xonotic vehicles go here.
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#2
Wow, just fired up Xonotic and played around a bit - the vehicles are awesome! My only nitpick is the control system on the raptor. When I'm flying, I feel sort of like a sitting duck; the vehicle isn't quite as agile as somebody on foot might be, for example, which is a shame because it's possible to make really snappy feeling aircraft which are capable of dodging projectiles and moving around tight spaces. I think the Battlefield series gets this right, their bindings are:
  • W: Increase thrust/vertical velocity
  • S: Reverse thrust/vertical velocity (sort of like a rotor brake, I guess)
  • A: Yaw left
  • D: Yaw right
  • Mouse axes: Pitch and roll (you can pitch and roll about as much as is physically possible, enabling you to do barrel rolls and backflips)
Of course, I don't think the majority of players actually care that much about control systems, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt and keep up the good work Smile
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#3
Anti-vehicle weapon for non-vehicle players. Most obvious and agreed upon candidate seems to be tweaking a tag seeker.

May not be directly a vehicle change, but this would have obvious effect on games with vehicles
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#4
I have already posted idea about energy weapons having extra dmg on shields and conventional ones making extra dmg on armor.

But honestly, I have posted it too and backed up with hard facts, current vehicle maps are anti-vehicle in terms of gameplay, so balancing vehicles basing on fake gameplay results might only hurt balancing process.
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#5
Not too happy about the current vehicles to be honest.

The spiderbot is somewhat fun to play, but overpowered against people on foot.
The fast "glider" is at best an option to quickly get from point A to point B in the quite horribly designed maps (too large)... and when you boost with it, most of the time all you do is crash into some wall.
And the flying thing is basically a slow moving bombing platform to destroy stationary defenses and respawned vehicles for the top most possible hight allowed in a map... just to be killed after some time by someone with a Nex. Not exactly fun to play either.
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#6
My thoughts:
  • The glider's boost is too fast, the movements are too twitchy, the missiles are a little bit too slow and I think that more particles need to be sprayed about the place when you accelerate/brake,
  • The heli locks onto enemies which is pointless seeing as there are no homing projectiles, there's little you can do to shrug off enemy fire (barrel rolls would be awesome) and the heli is no match for someone with a Nex (which can be very annoying),
  • The spider bot cannot look up far enough which means it can't be used to take down helis effectively.

Although there are some flaws, I quite like the vehicles.
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#7
(06-14-2012, 12:16 PM)poVoq Wrote: Not too happy about the current vehicles to be honest
...
This stuff is just negative input, and provides nothing for me to work with. Also, if a large "tank" packed with guns does not tear a foot solider to bits, there's something horribly wrong with that vehicle Wink

(06-14-2012, 04:50 PM)rocknroll237 Wrote: The glider's boost is too fast, the movements are too twitchy, the missiles are a little bit too slow and I think that more particles need to be sprayed about the place when you accelerate/brake
Glider's (along with the rest) getting a revamp atm and among things that does indeed make it a lil slower, more controllable, and better missiles.

Quote:The heli locks onto enemies which is pointless seeing as there are no homing projectiles, there's little you can do to shrug off enemy fire (barrel rolls would be awesome) and the heli is no match for someone with a Nex (which can be very annoying)
Without the heli lock you would not hit anything moving at long range. The weapon predicts the targets movement once locked. Nex damage has already been reduced by 50% versus vehicles. Barrel rolls would do nothing to help you dodge, vehicles uses aligned bboxes for hit testing, so no mater how you twist and spin the visual model, it still have the same hit area. This is hard to do better in darkplaces without totally raping performance.

Quote:The spider bot cannot look up far enough which means it can't be used to take down helis effectively.[/list]
Thats by design, given how much health and firepower it has, it need a weakness. It will get a slightly larger aim-area in the update tough.
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#8
Good to hear that the glider is getting an update.

I didn't want to sound too negativly but I guess both rocknroll and me have the same gripes.

Also realism does not apply to Xonotic... So that is not an excuse to make something totally overpowered Wink
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#9
I think vehicles are pretty much okay, they need proper maps now. Because Spider Bot might seem to be OP, but put into tight environment (alleys, rows, forest,etc) can be vulnerable like little puppy.

Glider is very awesome, if map incorporates his unique abilities, it can be used to make awesome actions. Like plant some obstacle hard to avoid, unless you make awesome Glider-Ramp-Jump.

And so on.

In open space, in which Spider Bot should not be able to act, Spider Bot is OP.

On Unsealed we have practically open space, vehicles pwn everybody. But add some buildings there, with few platforms, place there some weapons, and spider has problem with hitting and hiding enemy. Place there more rocks, more obstacles, and camping Spider Bot will be shredded to pieces, before it will manage to rotate properly.

Also - Spider Bot should never ever be allowed to walk inside buildings - they should be constructed in the way, that prevents it. Unsealed is perfect example of this problem - I have seen many times standoffs, when both sides had their flags in Spider Bots, in their bases.

Glider should allow player to make moves on map, which are beneficial from it. If you throw him into open space, after grabbing flag - game is over. It should not work this way. Make a few ramps on map, so if player is skilled enough, he will get super shortcut to grab flag for example.

Like I said before - vehicles put into wrong environment will give false-postive information about their balance. And I dare to say, that's what happening in this thread now.
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#10
I was not referring to realism, i was referring to what "makes game sense" - if hugegunpackedmetalmonster in practice is just another gun, its rather pointless imo. Also all it takes to kill one atm is a few ppl with some fast fire weapons and some teamwork. I strongly object to the idea that one player versus "the tank" vehicle should ever be anything even close to evenly matched (witch also makes actually taking one out on foot something cool).

edit:
And i much agree that more appropriate maps are needed - but until there is some, we will have to make do with what we got. My intention with this thread (at least at this point) was more things the line of "What if vehicle X could have a chargeable jump?" type of things rather then the finer points of balancing them.
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#11
My only issue with the vehicles right now (aside from balance, which we currently lack maps for testing) is that the Wakizashi and Raptor feel a little off at the moment, like the raptor needs to have some form of momentum thrown in (Ever play the PS1 version of WarHawk? That would be a good direction to go in for the raptor's physics.) to prevent it from being able to instantly go into a stand still. I'm not sure what to do with the Wakizashi. Other than that, I find the vehicles (spider bot especially) to be very enjoyable, and having an almost Tribes 2 feel to them. Fix the minor quirks in them and you've got something special to add to the game that can drastically expand playability, allowing Xonotic to not only throw it's weight against straight arena FPS games like Quake 3 and UT99, but also take on Tribes and UT2k4 as well.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#12
I would like it to be removed all servers and make it hard to install, this will make more players play Xonotic isntead for a hobby made mod.
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#13
(06-15-2012, 08:24 AM)K__ Wrote: for a hobby made mod.

..which is Xonotic. Tongue
You don't have to join the servers. Simple. Wink
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#14
Oh goodness, vehicles too?!?! Seriously, think a little before posting, it can't hurt.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#15
Quote:I would like it to be removed all servers and make it hard to install, this will make more players play Xonotic isntead for a hobby made mod.



[Image: haters-gonna-hate-rozowy-garnitur.jpg]
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#16
Nice rolling hill terrains are possible with Darkplaces btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmiQsKYPdw
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#17
(06-15-2012, 01:27 PM)poVoq Wrote: Nice rolling hill terrains are possible with Darkplaces btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmiQsKYPdw

Do you know what kind of effect this kind of thing has on performance? ie; making the game unplayably slow on an average system or something.

But even so, I could imagine this be a slaughter fest leaning on the vehicles, since the players on foot would be extremely exposed to fire from vehicles
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#18
"I have already posted idea about energy weapons having extra dmg on shields and conventional ones making extra dmg on armor." Majki

I agree with this proposition. It's similar to how Halo did it and I think it could be applied here too.

One thing I noticed about the spiderbot recently is that its rate of fire for the machine gun has increased. This has made it overpowered and has made it even more dangerous that it already was to Heli and the Gliding vehicle. Now if your caught in its fire for even a second in vehicles other than the spiderbot it means instant death.

I would like the spiderbots rate of fire to be reduced back to it was before the change to prevent this.
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#19
Strangely the energy and traditional weapons idea sounds like it would work well.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#20
At the moment there is not generic way to determine if what hit you was explosive, kinetic, energy, bad karma, yesterdays chilly or some lovely combination. While it's of course possible to hard-code checks for each weapon, turret, vehicle, lava, slime etc such solutions are not precisely good practice. So to do this 'right' the whole damage subsystem would need a update (not saying that's a bad idea, just that it would a fair bit of work). That said, i fairly like the idea too.

Spiders mini-guns still have a high ROF but actually less DPS then they had before the 'speedup' now. To offset the lower damage, they can now price lesser obstacles (ballistic bullets ala rifle).
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#21
>Bad karma

hehehe, That might be funny for a mutator if someone gets bored. Accumulate a player's bad deeds (typefragging, spawn killing, team kililng, etc.) and then randomly have it come back to haunt them later. The more bad they do, the more likely it is to trigger and give them a hard time.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#22
If we go wit idea of enegryVSshields and normalVSarmor mappers will get extra job - correctly and smart place weapons on their maps. Bt also it might be fun - like designing part of the level which be strategically important - for example only one place with Nex or energy cells to it.
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#23
Considering that hardly any vehicle maps (outside of test ones) exist, I don't think it would be too much of an issue, though I'm no mapper. I don't think they intend to make this concept apply to players running around on foot, just on vehicles.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#24
please please please Big Grin



if video doesn'tt work ... link
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#25
Use [yt] instead of [video=youtube], that works better. I fixed your post.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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