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[CTF]Runningman - FIXED!

#1
BEHOLD!
I PROUDLY PRESENT TO YOU:


RUNNINGMAN!

Now totally new! Vote for it!

FIXED!


Well, it's not my map. For some odd reason Cortez asked me to make the tedious release-work for him.

In short Cortez made a few neat fixes that annoyed pretty much everyone:
- removed the irksome boxes
- removed the exasperating fence and stairs around the flag
- reduced the cumbrously broad room around the jumppad to the flag
- reduced the bulky ways leading to the flag
- improved contrast between mapcolour and characters

Most of the changes go back to the nexuiz' version of the map and fix tedious "features" which have been introduced to the map with it's release and which have been buggy, irritating and disagreeable from day one, since they were hindering smooth gameplay.

As far as i can judge from the few testgames we already had with a bunch of people on Laid everyone liked this version more.
With this in mind i want to encourage you to add it to your ctf-servers and adjure you to replace the former version with cortez' fix in the next official release.

You can download the map here:
http://ompldr.org/iZjE3MQ

BTW: the issue with the missing texture people were encountering should be fixed with this version, as cortez assured me. Also he claims to have reduced the overexposating look of it (too bright lights).

Alrighty, guys. Now you are free to unleash all your inexorable, devastating critisism upon Cortez - my work here is done. Smile
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#2
Regardless if the result is good, you did modify the map to fit your personal taste, not "fix" it.
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#3
Listen to that cortez!
How dare you call your map a fix if it ain't?!
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#4
Please call it something else. This is not a version bump for runningman, it's an alternate version. Don't distribute it as runningman-ctf.pk3.

Call it runningman_kg-ctf.bsp or pk3 for example.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#5
first of all: this is not my map - so calling it "kg" would expose a severe inability to spell "Cortez".

furthermore: it's way closer to the nexuiz-original - so if anything: cortez attempt is rather runningman than the other map Tongue

and at last: i'd really like to have this map in the official release and i'm sure many people will be of the same opinion.

bonus: this is cortez' map, not mine.
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#6
Oops, I read the OP too fast. Sorry about getting the author wrong. Also, I thought runningman-ctf.bsp was the name used by Xonotic but the runningman included isn't the ctf version.

Sorry, my bad.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#7
I see nothing bad in the current version of runningman. This version is somehow a downgrade imo, details vanished, lighting is just briiiiiiiight and the flag-stand looks clumsy and is hard to reach for newbies.
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#8
I like it. Nothing blocks your way now.

HOWEVER: It seems (for me at least) that another 'Cortez hater' has emarged.
What you guys have to Cortez? This guy has an experience and I decided to defend him. He has just different personal taste then yours, killgenerals. Thats all. You should find consensus, do not fight each other. what about having those 'fixes' in orginal map but also adding some 'cortez like' features into it? Cause I ve allready got used to the Cortez's version and I allready miss all those containers Tongue They do not change the gameplay THAT much
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#9
It´s everyone´s (!) personal opinion. Period.
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#10
(08-09-2012, 12:04 PM)Justin Wrote: HOWEVER: It seems (for me at least) that another 'Cortez hater' has emarged.
What you guys have to Cortez? This guy has an experience and I decided to defend him. He has just different personal taste then yours, killgenerals.

Hilarious, did you read that, cortez?

blastin' new players ...

you were right, buddy, it is kinda fun.
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#11
I think there's too much bloom! Way too much bloom. And I don't want to turn it off because it makes the map look very dull. Why do so many map makers make their maps so damn bright? Huh

Anyway, I like the layout, but I think that you have to know how to move properly in order to get the flag... Maybe this could be a version for skilled players and not for complete noobs?
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#12
(08-09-2012, 12:03 PM)Maddin Wrote: details vanished,
useless stuff which just blocks you

(08-09-2012, 12:03 PM)Maddin Wrote: lighting is just briiiiiiiight
Nothing changed just changed color intensity of base textures used the same compile settings

(08-09-2012, 12:03 PM)Maddin Wrote: and the flag-stand looks clumsy and is hard to reach for newbies.
its just as in nexuiz. its way harder to camp in there and you cant get stuck on a stupid fence. Also a part people liked at public playtesting.


(08-09-2012, 12:04 PM)Justin Wrote: He has just different personal taste then yours, killgenerals.
you know that he and worked out most of the changes. He is highly in favor of that version

(08-09-2012, 12:05 PM)Maddin Wrote: It´s everyone´s (!) personal opinion. Period.
I wouldnt made that changes if there arent at least a few people who like it.

(08-09-2012, 12:35 PM)rocknroll237 Wrote: I think there's too much bloom! Way too much bloom.
well the bloom in 0.6 is broken anyway and is fixed if you are using an new autobuild or git.

(08-09-2012, 12:35 PM)rocknroll237 Wrote: Maybe this could be a version for skilled players and not for complete noobs?
well, this version is mostly like the version which was played in nexuiz. The Xonotic version is just dulled down.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#13
I like the original better tbh..
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#14
it seemed to me much brighter too, don't know why.

the flag area is much better in this "fixed" version. Not sure about the rest of changes yet, but in my opinion, generally this runningman is better than the official one we have now.
<Halogene> ok "n1" means "nice one"
<Halogene> "gl" means "good luck"
<Halogene> "fu" means "wow that was wickedly nice that frag"
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#15
gaaa ... you broke it D:

rlights are gone!

pretty colors altered

crates vanished (along with their contents)

bounce area no longer a patch mesh

D:


...

yeah ... in my opinion I dont like the lack of detail ... I am up for changes ... as long as you add new eye candy for the eye candy you take out ...

and the concrete bars leading to the flag area just look strange ...


... about the map being too bright ...

did you compile it with the LEGACY COMPILE SETTINGS ... remember that a new lighting system was implemented recently ... so you have to use the old lighting compile settings ... (at the bottom of radiant's compile list)
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#16
(08-09-2012, 09:41 PM)hutty Wrote: remember that a new lighting system was implemented recently ... so you have to use the old lighting compile settings ... (at the bottom of radiant's compile list)

I just find this hilarious - a new lightning system was implemented to make the game look better and you are recommending that mappers use the old one on purpose :-). This has to make the devs who worked on this really happy :-P.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#17
(08-09-2012, 12:35 PM)rocknroll237 Wrote: Maybe this could be a version for skilled players and not for complete noobs?
Why would it, capping got much easier on the new version. Though I admit that it might be more fun to play like that on public servers.

Anyway, I don't think one should call a map with lightning like this (old version: link) "fixed". Looks to me like you optimized it to work with your config only.
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#18
(08-09-2012, 09:41 PM)hutty Wrote: pretty colors altered
in order to have better contrast. It seems to be a general problem in xon that the contrast between player-model and almost equaly coloured map-colour is too low, so you see your oponent too late. Cortez has played with different colours and chose a new one to offer better contrast - and he succeded.

(08-09-2012, 09:41 PM)hutty Wrote: crates vanished (along with their contents)
yeah those things annoyed pretty much everyone, because you kept bumping into them at the most untimely situations. This doesn't happen to all these aweful rocketjumpers, because they fly over half the room anyway - but it happens to everyone playing it normally, and even worse to noobs who keep getting stuck there. This is, i believe, also the reason, why the map appears bigger: you can move more freely and it looks "emptier".


(08-09-2012, 09:41 PM)hutty Wrote: bounce area no longer a patch mesh
dunno what that's supposed to mean, but cortez optimized the area around the high-jump-pads in order to cover the flag area better. It seems not like this, but in this version the flag-area is harder to protect by the defender. now he cannot run so easily through, has less space to shoot through (standing at the mortar-postion) and the area around the flag doesnt allow mortar or RL shots on the aweful fence which often (nearly) killed flagcarriers right at taking the flag.


(08-09-2012, 09:41 PM)hutty Wrote: yeah ... in my opinion I dont like the lack of detail ... I am up for changes ... as long as you add new eye candy for the eye candy you take out ...

and the concrete bars leading to the flag area just look strange ...
Well as to the details of the textures and stuff, i cannot tell you too much.
Since i got xonotic i got really big problems with maintaning constant 100fps (which i've been used to for some four or five years now). FPS keep varying between some 95 and 36 on the display with regular fps drops to fps-lags. Disabling all textures helped it a little but i still dont get constant fps. Besides xonotic i play Empire TW (with darth mod and quadrupled unit-sizes and added smoke) - some people might know that this game is really demanding on the hardware and looks way better than xonotic. I can play that game smoothly on highest details and shadows, without problems, whereas i get above mentioned issues when playing xonotic, even without textures. I've rarely seen a game so badly hardware-optimized as xonotic (cant play it on the laptop AT ALL). This is of course given to the fact that xon is developed by an opensource-community and that it's still not reached 1.0.
But nevertheless mappers keep adding useless details and fancy textures. whats the point? Maybe cortez removed details. I can't judge it, since i'm obliged to turn textures off anyway - really neat eyecandy that is. -.-

the "concrete bars" have been made narrower. Personally i'd have liked them more like in the nexuiz-version as an added obstacle, but cortez was to lazy. Useless mapper he is.


As to the brightness issue: well, i certainly have a different config to cortez and this version certainly appears brighter than the old one, but by far not as bad as the asi-guy showed it.
That's actually another thing. All mappers keep making ultra-bright-maps, not thinking about people who play with bloom, coronas, hdr and stuff. I've been playing with bloom and coronas since i started so many years ago playing nexuiz. Now i was forced to disable them because almost every map appears ultra-bright and i keep getting blinded by it. I wonder why you go and nag about cortez now and dont care about the other uselessly overbright maps in this game.
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#19
This Cortez's version is better than xon official, hands down. The "features" that were added in default xon version are mostly game-disrupting clutter.
I didn't have much issues with lightning in it. But anyway, lights can be tweaked. What matters is that the map basics are way better now.

There are more maps out there that got such pointless clutter or other strange changes. E.g. boxes in final_rage remake... Or mortar in xonotic version of evilspace (wtf Huh)
It seams like few mappers try desperately to make some difference against old Nex/Quake versions. Thing is, out of hundread maps out there, only the good/best ones are getting remakes. And putting clutter/major changes to this sort of maps is 99.9% guaranteed failure.
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#20
I actually prefer the current one. The boxes never had a problem on this map and the stairs at the flag are much better then the ramps which are just plain annoying and make it unsmooth going to the flag. Final rage boxes are indeed silly since there nearly in the middle of the room.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#21
You don't even play ctf, kojn -.-

With the stairs you need to go around the fence, or use an additional laserjump or just fly high from the beginning, flying over the fence. This is the most prepostrous added feature i've ever seen in any remake, ever. cortez didn't even add the cool and useful ramps that were in the original.

Also: full approve of what subzero said.
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#22
[Image: 24748938.jpg]
[Image: 24748993.jpg]
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#23
I don't even play ctf?

/facepalm

Thread done for me.
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#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#24
may the flame war continue ...

a couple things ...

1 -- the map is too bright because the original was compiles with the legacy settings (which are darker) ... the old settings aren't usually better for new maps ... but the old maps were made for these settings ... so recompile with legacy settings to restore the correct light contrast ...

2 -- your complaining about fps drops ... and you have bloom enabled???? thats like a self contraditory statement ...

3 -- there are plenty of ways to add details without lowering fps ... look at flowplant (good example .. high fps ... ect)

4 -- xonotic does have major issues with particle effects, and preformance ... so ... yeah ... smoke is an issue ...

5 -- us mappers are creating bright maps cause ... we as soooo tired of dark / rust / orange ones ... (dark/rust/orange isn't bad ... there's just too many of them)
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#25
(08-10-2012, 01:04 PM)hutty Wrote: may the flame war continue ...

5 -- us mappers are creating bright maps cause ... we as soooo tired of dark / rust / orange ones ... (dark/rust/orange isn't bad ... there's just too many of them)

I am not tired! Anyway: Its all about gameplay. You should 'fix' the map so its playable. Not neccessarily add plenty of dark areas, because players what to see their opponents without setting brightness and contrast incredibly high.

Orange is a pretty color, do you have anything against it?

The major problem of mapping in Xonotic is its repeatability: What I mean is: Hey! Lets add some pipes, grates, and typical trims and here we go: REMAKE! oh, damn I forgot about that conteiner in the corner. And lets paint everything with 'rusty' exx textures, shall we?

This is what I am against. I think we should inspect for new ideas, unique style, inspirations, Soelen,... wait? Soelen?
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